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Thread: Doctor being tested for Ebola in NYC [W:110]

  1. #121
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    Re: Doctor being tested for Ebola in NYC

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    There is function, and then there is intent.

    The challenge here is in understanding the general attitude towards Ebola of the very great majority of doctors.

    They truly believe that the only way to catch Ebola is through contact with a very symptomatic patient's blood, vomit, or feces.

    With the number of West African people with Ebola increasing, after spending just a month there treating the sick, he returns home, after having most likely had contact with a number of patients' blood, vomit, and feces, wearing less than adequate protection, adequate protection not universally available in West Africa, likely thinking, knowing as he does just how the disease is spread, that he may indeed have been sufficiently exposed to someone's blood, vomit, or feces, and monitoring his likely incubation period, and that if he does have the virus in him .. the best care is here in America.

    So he flies to liberal Belgium .. probably not telling airport security that he's just had super high-risk contact with Ebola .. and then he flies from Brussels to New York, a flight that no one is really screening. So that gets him home, to where the best care is.

    Believing, as he does, that no one is in danger from him, believing, as he does, that there's insufficient viral load in body fluids prior to showing symptoms, especially in saliva, he goes out about his business on the town. Heck, he even has contact with his fiancee (who is now forced into 21-day isolation that might cost her her job)!

    He's likely correct, that no one was in danger from him if he's not symptomatic, or even if he's barely symptomatic .. likely correct.

    But, the problem he misses isn't medical, it's sociological -- it's his "bedside manner" toward his fellow American citizens that stinks.

    And, he's missing that his behavior will be viewed as just another "arrogant doctor".

    And, he's missing the selfishness in his behavior, ironic considering his volunteer work in West Africa was anything but selfish.

    What he apparently doesn't grasp is that the great majority of people don't believe the way the very great majority of doctors do on this matter. The great majority of people are still understandably intelligently concerned about Ebola .. about the 24 hours prior to experiencing classic symptoms .. about how much of the virus truly is in saliva during those last 24 hours prior to symptoms .. about what happens if the doctors are wrong or somehow a very poor person gets infected and doesn't go to the hospital but is cared for at home (how the epidemic spread in West Africa) .. about how long the virus can exist on surfaces in the cold and dark as winter approaches .. about how healthcare professionals can contract the disease from ER walk-in patients they care for prior to them testing positive and being placed in protective isolation (how the two nurses got Ebola from Duncan in Dallas) .. about how each new case of Ebola exposes the virus to a new host that may be the right environment for mutating to airborne .. about the effect of each new case of Ebola in America on Wall Street .. about how deadly the virus is, especially without proper treatment from the onset of symptoms, proper treatment so many of America's own poor can't afford .. about how special prevention of the spread of Ebola will thus be a taxpayer burden ...

    The great majority of Americans are rightly concerned.

    But, the very great majority of doctors aren't concerned about these matters (even if some virologists are).

    Terrorism is intent.

    Sociological ignorance and selfishness, no, these are not terrorism.

    But they are bad.

    To return to the heart of our country's most populous city, six days prior to experiencing symptoms he most certainly knew were likely, and walk around freely amongst the populous?

    Professional arrogance and sociological ignorance and egocentric selfishness, and even self-preservation over moral imperatives? Yes.

    Terrorism? No. His intention wasn't to do harm to others but to take care of himself.

    His volunteer organization, Doctors Without Borders, does a wonderful volunteer service, putting themselves at known risk, helping the sick who cannot afford medical care. They are to be praised for that, most assuredly.

    But, the problem I have with this organization and its members, is their political philosophy with respect to the ".. Without Borders" part: they have a tendency to have disdain for geopolitical units, treating one place in the world like any other, like, in this case, West Africa and New York City are just part of one big planet, without different laws, or healthcare, or you name it.

    So his liberal "Multi-Cultural Internationalist" attitude is on display, which contributes to his pretty lousy "bedside manner" toward his fellow Americans.

    But, a terrorist? No.

    Nevertheless, he should have a stern talking to about the value of being sensitive to people not possessing the great medical body of knowledge he possess, and about being sensitive to his country's government that's now attempting to promote the sociological general welfare of its people and implement physiological and psychological protections for the American people ..

    .. And about how, under the right host and conditions, a virus can mutate to airborne, especially after being passed from person, to person, to person .. in an epidemic like West Africa.

    THAT----WAS----A-----GREAT----POST! I think you nailed it.
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  2. #122
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    Re: Doctor rushed to Bellevue Hospital with Ebola symptoms went bowling a day earlier

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurmugeon View Post
    Friends do NOT expose Friends to Ebola!

    -
    Agreed.

    What he did to his fiancee!

    He most certainly knew he had had sufficient exposure, and he was likely counting down his incubation period.

    Yet he had "contact" with his fiancee!

    Now she is definitely at risk.

    And now she is under 21-day quarantine.

    And now she will experience lost time from work, that might harm her economically .. maybe put her job at risk, as WHO has stated the incubation period is now 42 days and what co-worker is going to want her back at the job before then!

    Selfish .. very selfish .. .. and arrogant.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: Doctor being tested for Ebola in NYC

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Not knowing everything doesn't mean we know nothing. He's not infectious, why should he not socialise, he's spent a long time away from family and friends. Do you think a doctor would put them at risk? Capitalising "Infected Country", is that supposed to make us fearful? It's silly, besides which how can a country be infected?
    Infected Country or Countries is the term the MS Media uses.....did you want to take that PC BS to them, its their terminology?



    http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...-0&sp=-1&sk=#a

    What do you think it means by Levels of transmission in a Country? Uhm.....note the 2 areas in Liberia with no Transmission.

    Hows the Rest of the Entire Country looking?
    Last edited by MMC; 10-24-14 at 10:38 AM.

  4. #124
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    Re: Doctor rushed to Bellevue Hospital with Ebola symptoms went bowling a day earlier

    In a city as big as NYC??! Let's just hope and pray that this won't get out of hand!! I know this is being compared to Aids in it's early days, but at least the symptoms don't lie dormant for yrs,giving people time to infect hundreds of people over a period of time. If someone gets Ebola we'll know within 3 wks!

    The conspiracy terrorist theories are hilarious!!! Come on people!

  5. #125
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    Re: Doctor rushed to Bellevue Hospital with Ebola symptoms went bowling a day earlier

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    That a doctor did not self-quarantine after returning from West Africa's Guinea (Ebola infectious zone) is... highly disturbing.
    Agreed.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: Doctor being tested for Ebola in NYC

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Those with even the slightest left lean would do well to spend less time posturing to protect the federal executive branch and more time being sensitive to the great majority of their fellow Americans' legitimate concerns.
    Mentioning that ebola is not an airborne virus, transmission requires contact with bodily fluids/secretions, the risk of transmission when one is not symptomatic is remote, etc., does not mean that one is seeking to "protect" the White House. Those details are based on what's currently known about the virus. A useful source:

    WHO | Ebola virus disease

    I've mentioned that the initial CDC communications were suboptimal and that the Dallas experience highlighted some gaps that needed to be addressed. Those things aside, the U.S. remains in a very strong position to avoid an ebola epidemic.

    Finally, a mutation that leads to airborne transmission of ebola is extremely unlikely. Two links that were shared with me:

    From Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases:
    Don't Expect Ebola to Go Airborne

    From Microbiology & Immunology Professor Vincent Racaniello of the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Columbia University:
    What we are not afraid to say about Ebola virus

  7. #127
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    Re: Doctor being tested for Ebola in NYC

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Personally, if it were me, I would have self-quarantined for the full 21 days after my having returned out of an abundance of caution. I do think that once he began feeling sluggish, he should have restricted his contact with the public. At that point, there was a probability that he could become symptomatic e.g., sudden onset of fever, so there was a chance that it could have happened when he was in contact with the public.

    Fortunately, Ebola is not an airborne virus. So far, there are no reports that he was symptomatic while in the public.

    Also, NYC has a number of amazing world-class hospitals. I have great confidence that the doctor's case (and any others that might occur in the greater NYC area e.g., from people who returned from Ebola-stricken areas) will be handled with the attention to detail and competence necessary to minimize the risk of its spreading to the health care workers who treat him (and any other future ebola patients). Of course, there's always some small probability of their being infected, but I think it is probably as low as it could be given present knowledge and protection.
    No, Ebola is not airborne .. .. yet.

    But, the quickest way to get it to mutate to airborne is to expose it to many different DNA hosts: http://www.debatepolitics.com/health...ight-host.html

    Virologists are concerned, and our stepped up prevention is warranted.

    No one wants to be that last "Typhoid Mary" chain in the link.

    It's not just about not infecting the next guy.

    It's also about not letting the virus have a chance to mutate to airborne.

    Better extra careful safe than lose a quarter of the world's population sorry.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: Doctor being tested for Ebola in NYC

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    OMFG. You really think NOT freaking out is to "protect" Obama?

    The problem is that the vast majority of these concerns AREN'T legitimate. It's sheer panic.
    As usual....you have no clue as to what you are talking about.


    Transmission of Ebola virus from pigs to non-human primates.....

    In 2009, Reston-EBOV was the first EBOV detected in swine with indicated transmission to humans. In-contact transmission of Zaire-EBOV (ZEBOV) between pigs was demonstrated experimentally. Here we show ZEBOV transmission from pigs to cynomolgus macaques without direct contact. Interestingly, transmission between macaques in similar housing conditions was never observed. Piglets inoculated oro-nasally with ZEBOV were transferred to the room housing macaques in an open inaccessible cage system. All macaques became infected. Infectious virus was detected in oro-nasal swabs of piglets, and in blood, swabs, and tissues of macaques. This is the first report of experimental interspecies virus transmission, with the macaques also used as a human surrogate. Our finding may influence prevention and control measures during EBOV outbreaks.....snip~

    Transmission of Ebola virus from pigs to non-human primates : Scientific Reports : Nature Publishing Group

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    Re: Doctor being tested for Ebola in NYC

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Infected Country or Countries is the term the MS Media uses...
    Below is a more detailed map from the World Health Organization's Ebola Situation Report of October 22, 2014 (an update may be issued later today):


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    Re: Doctor being tested for Ebola in NYC

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Mentioning that ebola is not an airborne virus, transmission requires contact with bodily fluids/secretions, the risk of transmission when one is not symptomatic is remote, etc., does not mean that one is seeking to "protect" the White House. Those details are based on what's currently known about the virus. A useful source:

    WHO | Ebola virus disease

    I've mentioned that the initial CDC communications were suboptimal and that the Dallas experience highlighted some gaps that needed to be addressed. Those things aside, the U.S. remains in a very strong position to avoid an ebola epidemic.

    Finally, a mutation that leads to airborne transmission of ebola is extremely unlikely. Two links that were shared with me:

    From Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases:
    Don't Expect Ebola to Go Airborne

    From Microbiology & Immunology Professor Vincent Racaniello of the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Columbia University:
    What we are not afraid to say about Ebola virus




    There has been a lot of on-line and published controversy about whether Ebola virus can be transmitted via aerosols. Most scientific and medical personnel, along with public health organizations, have been unequivocal in their statements that Ebola can be transmitted only by direct contact with virus-laden fluids2,3 and that the only modes of transmission we should be concerned with are those termed "droplet" and "contact."
    These statements are based on two lines of reasoning. The first is that no one located at a distance from an infected individual has contracted the disease, or the converse, every person infected has had (or must have had) "direct" contact with the body fluids of an infected person.

    This reflects an incorrect and outmoded understanding of infectious aerosols, which has been institutionalized in policies, language, culture, and approaches to infection control. We will address this below. Briefly, however, the important points are that virus-laden bodily fluids may be aerosolized and inhaled while a person is in proximity to an infectious person and that a wide range of particle sizes can be inhaled and deposited throughout the respiratory tract......snip~

    COMMENTARY: Health workers need optimal respiratory protection for Ebola | CIDRAP

    We recommend using "aerosol transmissible" rather than the outmoded terms "droplet" or "airborne" to describe pathogens that can transmit disease via infectious particles suspended in air......snip~

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