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Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

Unrepresented said:
Organized labor is as "socialist" as organized business. They both use a distribution of people to leverage themselves into better bargaining position. Funny how you only hear the claims of "socialism" being brought against one side. Guess why?
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One major difference....

Organized business is dependent on people OFFERING to give them money for goods or services.

Organized labor DEMANDS (also known as extorting) money from its members whether they want to or not.
 
Gill said:
One major difference....

Organized business is dependent on people OFFERING to give them money for goods or services.

Organized labor DEMANDS (also known as extorting) money from its members whether they want to or not.
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really?
 
Mr.Nick said:
really?
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Yes, really.

Are you going to offer some type of thoughtful comment or just make a fly-by snark ??

If you're just here for the snark, don't bother replying to my posts.
 
Gill said:
One major difference....

Organized business is dependent on people OFFERING to give them money for goods or services.

Organized labor DEMANDS (also known as extorting) money from its members whether they want to or not.
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Ask the right questions......
 
Gill said:
I wasn't asking a question, I was making a comment.
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Good, for you that is the first step..

You want to play a game?


LOL yeah,'
 
I'm ****ing with you.
 
Unrepresented said:
Corporations are fictional, workers are humans and real. My priorities fall with humans rather than fictional entities intended to protect the wealth of the elites.
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Corporations pay their workers wages as compensation, they dont work for free you know...
 
Unrepresented said:
Corporations are fictional, workers are humans and real. My priorities fall with humans rather than fictional entities intended to protect the wealth of the elites.
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Are Unions "fictional" by your definition then?
 
Fenton said:
LOL !!

You mean the States with growing economies ?? Where workers can actually earn a living ?

You can " believe " all you want. The Unions only have themselves to blame.

Thuggery can only get you so far.
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Be interesting to know how much the union CEOs make, for producing nothing at all.
 
Mr.Nick said:
Why?

Honestly, there is no point in telling or even debating. Only the individual can change themselves.
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He was never the target. The authoritarian statists cannot be saved. They will be at their personal best once they assume room temperature.

But others can be saved. They are the target.
 
Gill said:
One major difference....

Organized business is dependent on people OFFERING to give them money for goods or services.

Organized labor DEMANDS (also known as extorting) money from its members whether they want to or not.
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It's not extortion if the majority of workers want to maintain their union status and the benefits such as an "average 10-30% higher pay than non-union in America after controlling for individual, job, and labor market characteristics" that it provide.

Trade union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Union members vote for their representatives who determine the costs associated with dues. I can't vote for the CEO of my company.
PoS said:
Corporations pay their workers wages as compensation, they dont work for free you know...
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The union is more equivalent to a service that the members contract with. The union provides them with services and assesses dues to help pay for those services.
jmotivator said:
Are Unions "fictional" by your definition then?
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Some unions are incorporated.
 
Unrepresented said:
It's not extortion if the majority of workers want to maintain their union status and the benefits such as an "average 10-30% higher pay than non-union in America after controlling for individual, job, and labor market characteristics" that it provide.

Trade union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Union members vote for their representatives who determine the costs associated with dues. I can't vote for the CEO of my company.

The union is more equivalent to a service that the members contract with. The union provides them with services and assesses dues to help pay for those services.

Some unions are incorporated.
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It's extortion if an employee does not want to join the union, but is forced to.

I've never been a member of a union in my life, but managed quite well financially. I don't need someone else to bargain my wages for me, I prefer to do that myself.
 
jmotivator said:
And? You haven't answered my question.
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Incorporated groups are legal fiction.
Gill said:
It's extortion if an employee does not want to join the union, but is forced to.

I've never been a member of a union in my life, but managed quite well financially. I don't need someone else to bargain my wages for me, I prefer to do that myself.
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No one can be forced to join a union.
 
Unrepresented said:
Incorporated groups are legal fiction.


No one can be forced to join a union.
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That's interesting. Somewhat a play on words I guess.

The SEIU forced people providing in home support care to act as if they joined the union. In California, they got the state legislature to pass a law that defined those people compensated by the state through the In Home Support Services program as public employees. Through a series of backroom deals, the SEIU then became the bargaining unit for these in home care givers. Without any choice, monthly dues were withheld by the state, and transferred to the SEIU. This scheme was duplicated in many other states, including Illinois, where a lawsuit brought by a caregiver finally brought a stop to this massive scheme when the Supreme Court ruled in the workers favor. Up until then they were forced to pay these due, in effect, join the union, whether they wanted to or not.

Total dues collected by this massive scam in California alone exceeds $300 million over 8 years.
 
ocean515 said:
That's interesting. Somewhat a play on words I guess.

The SEIU forced people providing in home support care to act as if they joined the union. In California, they got the state legislature to pass a law that defined those people compensated by the state through the In Home Support Services program as public employees. Through a series of backroom deals, the SEIU then became the bargaining unit for these in home care givers. Without any choice, monthly dues were withheld by the state, and transferred to the SEIU. This scheme was duplicated in many other states, including Illinois, where a lawsuit brought by a caregiver finally brought a stop to this massive scheme when the Supreme Court ruled in the workers favor. Up until then they were forced to pay these due, in effect, join the union, whether they wanted to or not.

Total dues collected by this massive scam in California alone exceeds $300 million over 8 years.
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A) Paying for services unions were required by federal law to provide you isn't a scam.

B) I find it considerably less misleading than the term "right to work" which ever American possesses.
 
Unrepresented said:
A) Paying for services unions were required by federal law to provide you isn't a scam.

B) I find it considerably less misleading than the term "right to work" which ever American possesses.
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According to the Supreme Court, forcing people to pay dues when they didn't want to join the union was against the law. The scam came in when the legislature they purchased agreed to designate people providing care for their relatives living at home, (the original intent of the program) as state employees, thus allowing the SEIU to step in and become the bargaining unit for all these people, like it or not.

What was once a small program with good intent became a fraud plagued program in California with annual costs over $5 billion. Oh, and it was especially sweet when after getting caught with the massive time card fraud, the SEIU actually drafted the bill designed to look into whether fraud existed.

It's this type of organized crime like action that give Unions the black eye they deserve, especially when it's a public employee union being giving the keys to the taxpayers purse by the legislatures they have purchased.
 
ocean515 said:
According to the Supreme Court, forcing people to pay dues when they didn't want to join the union was against the law. The scam came in when the legislature they purchased agreed to designate people providing care for their relatives living at home, (the original intent of the program) as state employees, thus allowing the SEIU to step in and become the bargaining unit for all these people, like it or not.

What was once a small program with good intent became a fraud plagued program in California with annual costs over $5 billion. Oh, and it was especially sweet when after getting caught with the massive time card fraud, the SEIU actually drafted the bill designed to look into whether fraud existed.

It's this type of organized crime like action that give Unions the black eye they deserve, especially when it's a public employee union being giving the keys to the taxpayers purse by the legislatures they have purchased.
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I'm not familiar with the situation you're referencing, but home health workers have historically been unfairly paid. Anyone addressing this (which I'd hope and assume the SEIU would) is doing them a service.
Gill said:
Semantics.
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Since when is directly refuting your claim with supporting evidence considered "semantics?"
 
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