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Thread: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    I think the point being made was that the amateur level spin on the story blaming unions was in keeping with the amateur level fact checking.
    I think the bigger picture is that unions cost the state another company who will be relocating elsewhere taking jobs with them.

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I think the bigger picture is that unions cost the state another company who will be relocating elsewhere taking jobs with them.
    That's your spin. My spin is that anti union states harm both their own citizens as well as those of other states.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    That's your spin. My spin is that anti union states harm both their own citizens as well as those of other states.
    Since union membership is so low how do you know that? Your opinion noted but you have provided no evidence that your opinion is correct. The declining union membership would seem to prove you wrong

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Since union membership is so low how do you know that? Your opinion noted but you have provided no evidence that your opinion is correct. The declining union membership would seem to prove you wrong
    Declining union membership has much to do with anti union legislation and follows a vicious cycle of decreasing influence and resources which causes it to have decreasing influence and resources. It's being starved by corporate friendly politicians and an ignorant public who had been misled into believing their best interests lie with the rich rather than those who actually represent them.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by 274ina View Post
    another example of we only hire slaves...............if your not a slave, then we will not hire you.

    It is the LAW.

    National Labor Relations Act
    Union defenders are always good for a display of histrionics.

    The 90% of working Americans that are not in a union are not slaves.

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Declining union membership has much to do with anti union legislation and follows a vicious cycle of decreasing influence and resources which causes it to have decreasing influence and resources. It's being starved by corporate friendly politicians and an ignorant public who had been misled into believing their best interests lie with the rich rather than those who actually represent them.
    Union membership has declined in the private sector because the worlds economy is becoming more competitive and open. Unions cannot survive in competitive markets. They require anti-competitive measures that afford them monopolistic privileges. That's why they've thrown so much money into political campaigns over the decades. They need to install politicians that will cater to their cartel. This also explains why public-sector union membership has increased since the 60s. Public sector is not a competitive market relative to the private sector, and the people paying wages (the public) are an extra layer removed from the negotiating table and are less able to defend themselves against Union cost hiking.

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Union membership has declined in the private sector because the worlds economy is becoming more competitive and open. Unions cannot survive in competitive markets. They require anti-competitive measures that afford them monopolistic privileges. That's why they've thrown so much money into political campaigns over the decades. They need to install politicians that will cater to their cartel. This also explains why public-sector union membership has increased since the 60s. Public sector is not a competitive market relative to the private sector, and the people paying wages (the public) are an extra layer removed from the negotiating table and are less able to defend themselves against Union cost hiking.
    There is a logical disconnect in this thread whereas everyone seemingly gives lip service to "middle class jobs" but then most complains about the expenses to employers about paying "middle class wages."

    You can't have middle class incomes (something we all apparently support) without paying middle class wages (something unions support).
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    There is a logical disconnect in this thread whereas everyone seemingly gives lip service to "middle class jobs" but then most complains about the expenses to employers about paying "middle class wages."

    You can't have middle class incomes (something we all apparently support) without paying middle class wages (something unions support).
    It doesn't adequately describe the union position to say they support middle-class wages. What they support is higher wages for their own members, and that's it. But it goes farther, because they also support non-competition with anyone outside their bargaining unit. This denies opportunities to those outside their little membership, and that's exactly what they want. They do not care one iota about the throngs of the unemployed, or anyone who would be able to do a better job, and/or do it for less, than their members.

    Imagine if a business struck a deal with a municipal government whereby no other person was allowed to sell what that business sells in that community except that business. If a government ever honored that sort of deal, it would be blatant government catering to a corrupt cartel. By definition. The exact same mechanism is at play with public-sector unions. The mechanism is the exact same, the only difference is the way that for some reason or another, our laws honor and protect one type of anti-competitive cartel, while considering other types of cartels illegal.

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    It doesn't adequately describe the union position to say they support middle-class wages. What they support is higher wages for their own members, and that's it. But it goes farther, because they also support non-competition with anyone outside their bargaining unit. This denies opportunities to those outside their little membership, and that's exactly what they want. They do not care one iota about the throngs of the unemployed, or anyone who would be able to do a better job, and/or do it for less, than their members.

    Imagine if a business struck a deal with a municipal government whereby no other person was allowed to sell what that business sells in that community except that business. If a government ever honored that sort of deal, it would be blatant government catering to a corrupt cartel. By definition. The exact same mechanism is at play with public-sector unions. The mechanism is the exact same, the only difference is the way that for some reason or another, our laws honor and protect one type of anti-competitive cartel, while considering other types of cartels illegal.
    Rising union wages increase the wages for non union jobs in order for those employers to maintain competitive in the, inverse of the way that non union states decrease the wages of union states.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Rising union wages increase the wages for non union jobs in order for those employers to maintain competitive in the, inverse of the way that non union states decrease the wages of union states.
    And the businesses pack up and move to those lower cost states, because consumers generally demand lower prices. Your notion of how competition works is backwards.

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