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Thread: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

  1. #251
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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    America has been shifting to individualistic mentality for decades. Unions are a casualty of that mindset. The myth of self-sufficiency and the narrative of success as an individual achievement are at this point deeply rooted in the American psyche. Unions are largely the antithesis of what Americans believe are the means to success, even if they would provide results that are in keeping with what Americans actually want.
    I would say that the myth that individuals are incapable of defining and obtaining their own employment worth has died away.

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    I would say that the myth that individuals are incapable of defining and obtaining their own employment worth has died away.
    The middle class has died away, which is what unions typically support.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    America has been shifting to individualistic mentality for decades. Unions are a casualty of that mindset. The myth of self-sufficiency and the narrative of success as an individual achievement are at this point deeply rooted in the American psyche. Unions are largely the antithesis of what Americans believe are the means to success, even if they would provide results that are in keeping with what Americans actually want.
    The education system in this country seems to be a problem. Too many people are always looking for someone to do things for them and personal responsibility is lost. There is a cost to the employee for union representation and that cost isn't offset by the benefits one could generate for themselves. People are obviously seeing that thus the decline in union membership. Unfortunately even you have no idea what it costs to start up, meet the legal/tax requirements, and monthly operating expenses nor does it matter to you, but money doesn't grow on trees and unions price companies out of business. seems that no job is better than a non union job to you.

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The education system in this country seems to be a problem. Too many people are always looking for someone to do things for them and personal responsibility is lost. There is a cost to the employee for union representation and that cost isn't offset by the benefits one could generate for themselves. People are obviously seeing that thus the decline in union membership. Unfortunately even you have no idea what it costs to start up, meet the legal/tax requirements, and monthly operating expenses nor does it matter to you, but money doesn't grow on trees and unions price companies out of business. seems that no job is better than a non union job to you.
    Once again, union pay is 10-30% higher compared to non union equivalents. Union dues don't cost 10-30% of a pay check. That's not including health benefits which are at 90% in union jobs. Between those two numbers dues are a small price to pay.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Once again, union pay is 10-30% higher compared to non union equivalents. Union dues don't cost 10-30% of a pay check. That's not including health benefits which are at 90% in union jobs. Between those two numbers dues are a small price to pay.
    Thus costs for business are 10-30% higher and they have to make up that expense to pay for the cost of capital and still compete in the market place. How do you suggest they pay for it?

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    The middle class has died away, which is what unions typically support.
    I've noticed that unions typically support themselves and democrats. I've never understood exactly how being a pipefitter is a political decision, but if you happen to be in a union or are required to be in one, it certainly is.

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Thus costs for business are 10-30% higher and they have to make up that expense to pay for the cost of capital and still compete in the market place. How do you suggest they pay for it?
    So, you're raising several different issues:

    1) How should business costs be allocated

    2) How should profits be allocated

    3) Who should decide this
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    So, you're raising several different issues:

    1) How should business costs be allocated

    2) How should profits be allocated

    3) Who should decide this
    Look, I don't mean to disrespectful but how old are you? How should businesses costs be allocated? Do you have concept of a business financial statement? Have you ever seen a business financial statement? Payroll is a business expense and 10-30% higher expenses have to be paid for out of revenue. Do you shop? Do you shop for the best prices?

    Profits allocated? What are profits and where do they go? Ask your teacher. It really is scary that in this country we have people who think that profits should be allocated and controlled. Do you realize that profits are taxed? The higher the profits the higher the taxes?

    Who should decide on what someone else makes? Wow, what a question? Shouldn't this be asked more of a Communist country?

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Look, I don't mean to disrespectful but how old are you? How should businesses costs be allocated? Do you have concept of a business financial statement? Have you ever seen a business financial statement? Payroll is a business expense and 10-30% higher expenses have to be paid for out of revenue. Do you shop? Do you shop for the best prices?
    Yes, I try to be a conscientious consumer. I try and shop for sustainable goods purchased from people paid fair wages. It's not always possible, but when it's an option, I try and make it. Conversely, I try and avoid purchasing from those that have unsustainable products and payrates.

    Employee compensation is one portion of costs to a business, but how that is allocated isn't fixed. Just because we're paying some employees substantially more or substantially less than others doesn't mean that is sustainable or valid.

    Further, while compensation is a portion of expenses it isn't the only expense, and why should the others get prioritized above fair wages in terms of allocation? Why are investments (as an example) seen as a de facto priority over living wages?
    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Profits allocated? What are profits and where do they go? Ask your teacher. It really is scary that in this country we have people who think that profits should be allocated and controlled. Do you realize that profits are taxed? The higher the profits the higher the taxes?
    Profit margins at the expense of fair pay is the issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Who should decide on what someone else makes? Wow, what a question? Shouldn't this be asked more of a Communist country?
    Unions aren't government. Unionization is a free market response to a free market problem. That's not communism.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Yes, I try to be a conscientious consumer. I try and shop for sustainable goods purchased from people paid fair wages. It's not always possible, but when it's an option, I try and make it. Conversely, I try and avoid purchasing from those that have unsustainable products and payrates.

    Employee compensation is one portion of costs to a business, but how that is allocated isn't fixed. Just because we're paying some employees substantially more or substantially less than others doesn't mean that is sustainable or valid.

    Further, while compensation is a portion of expenses it isn't the only expense, and why should the others get prioritized above fair wages in terms of allocation? Why are investments (as an example) seen as a de facto priority over living wages?

    Profit margins at the expense of fair pay is the issue.

    Unions aren't government. Unionization is a free market response to a free market problem. That's not communism.
    Didn't answer the question, how old are you and what is your business experience? The rest of your post is nothing more than opinions of someone too young to be taken seriously

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