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Thread: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

  1. #191
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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Some unions are incorporated.
    And? You haven't answered my question.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    It's not extortion if the majority of workers want to maintain their union status and the benefits such as an "average 10-30% higher pay than non-union in America after controlling for individual, job, and labor market characteristics" that it provide.

    Trade union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Union members vote for their representatives who determine the costs associated with dues. I can't vote for the CEO of my company.

    The union is more equivalent to a service that the members contract with. The union provides them with services and assesses dues to help pay for those services.

    Some unions are incorporated.
    It's extortion if an employee does not want to join the union, but is forced to.

    I've never been a member of a union in my life, but managed quite well financially. I don't need someone else to bargain my wages for me, I prefer to do that myself.

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    And? You haven't answered my question.
    Incorporated groups are legal fiction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    It's extortion if an employee does not want to join the union, but is forced to.

    I've never been a member of a union in my life, but managed quite well financially. I don't need someone else to bargain my wages for me, I prefer to do that myself.
    No one can be forced to join a union.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

  4. #194
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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Incorporated groups are legal fiction.


    No one can be forced to join a union.
    They will be if they want a job at a union shop in backward states with no right to work law.

  5. #195
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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    They will be if they want a job at a union shop in backward states with no right to work law.
    Union shops have been illegal for half a century.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_shop
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Incorporated groups are legal fiction.


    No one can be forced to join a union.
    That's interesting. Somewhat a play on words I guess.

    The SEIU forced people providing in home support care to act as if they joined the union. In California, they got the state legislature to pass a law that defined those people compensated by the state through the In Home Support Services program as public employees. Through a series of backroom deals, the SEIU then became the bargaining unit for these in home care givers. Without any choice, monthly dues were withheld by the state, and transferred to the SEIU. This scheme was duplicated in many other states, including Illinois, where a lawsuit brought by a caregiver finally brought a stop to this massive scheme when the Supreme Court ruled in the workers favor. Up until then they were forced to pay these due, in effect, join the union, whether they wanted to or not.

    Total dues collected by this massive scam in California alone exceeds $300 million over 8 years.

  7. #197
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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    That's interesting. Somewhat a play on words I guess.

    The SEIU forced people providing in home support care to act as if they joined the union. In California, they got the state legislature to pass a law that defined those people compensated by the state through the In Home Support Services program as public employees. Through a series of backroom deals, the SEIU then became the bargaining unit for these in home care givers. Without any choice, monthly dues were withheld by the state, and transferred to the SEIU. This scheme was duplicated in many other states, including Illinois, where a lawsuit brought by a caregiver finally brought a stop to this massive scheme when the Supreme Court ruled in the workers favor. Up until then they were forced to pay these due, in effect, join the union, whether they wanted to or not.

    Total dues collected by this massive scam in California alone exceeds $300 million over 8 years.
    A) Paying for services unions were required by federal law to provide you isn't a scam.

    B) I find it considerably less misleading than the term "right to work" which ever American possesses.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    A) Paying for services unions were required by federal law to provide you isn't a scam.

    B) I find it considerably less misleading than the term "right to work" which ever American possesses.
    According to the Supreme Court, forcing people to pay dues when they didn't want to join the union was against the law. The scam came in when the legislature they purchased agreed to designate people providing care for their relatives living at home, (the original intent of the program) as state employees, thus allowing the SEIU to step in and become the bargaining unit for all these people, like it or not.

    What was once a small program with good intent became a fraud plagued program in California with annual costs over $5 billion. Oh, and it was especially sweet when after getting caught with the massive time card fraud, the SEIU actually drafted the bill designed to look into whether fraud existed.

    It's this type of organized crime like action that give Unions the black eye they deserve, especially when it's a public employee union being giving the keys to the taxpayers purse by the legislatures they have purchased.

  9. #199
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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Union shops have been illegal for half a century.

    Union shop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Semantics.

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    Re: Union Demands send Firm and jobs packing from California

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    According to the Supreme Court, forcing people to pay dues when they didn't want to join the union was against the law. The scam came in when the legislature they purchased agreed to designate people providing care for their relatives living at home, (the original intent of the program) as state employees, thus allowing the SEIU to step in and become the bargaining unit for all these people, like it or not.

    What was once a small program with good intent became a fraud plagued program in California with annual costs over $5 billion. Oh, and it was especially sweet when after getting caught with the massive time card fraud, the SEIU actually drafted the bill designed to look into whether fraud existed.

    It's this type of organized crime like action that give Unions the black eye they deserve, especially when it's a public employee union being giving the keys to the taxpayers purse by the legislatures they have purchased.
    I'm not familiar with the situation you're referencing, but home health workers have historically been unfairly paid. Anyone addressing this (which I'd hope and assume the SEIU would) is doing them a service.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Semantics.
    Since when is directly refuting your claim with supporting evidence considered "semantics?"
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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