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Thread: Jury: Ex-Blackwater contractors guilty in 'outrageous' Nusoor Square shooting

  1. #131
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    Re: Jury: Ex-Blackwater contractors guilty in 'outrageous' Nusoor Square shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    You have shown no links that the jury exonerated Dunn.
    More dishonesty on your part. You are purposely misrepresenting the argument.
    It was about specific Jurors who believed his account, as they wanted to acquit.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    A few jurors were undecided on the first degree murder charge. That's vastly different from stating that the jury accepted Dunn's self-defense claim.
    More dishonesty from you, which is to be expected in every post you make.
    I already provided the information that three jurors wanted to acquit. Do you not know what the word acquit means.
    Wanting to acquit is vastly different from being undecided. They are the reason the jury was hung.

    So all you are doing again is showing that you do not pay attention, and are dishonest.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    And that is incorrect and not the evidence (and also unsourced). From CBS News:
    Irrelavent.
    A news report is not evidence.
    As you were already told, she was not credible.
    She was destroyed on cross and by the testimony of another expert.
    Your fault again for not knowing the actual evidence.
    He was not seated when shot.

    And as this argument has already been had on this site, as you were told, it has already been sourced.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    It's kind of ironic that for all this bluster, none of which gets to the heart of the evidence, I've provided links regarding the key evidence:

    You have not actually provided evidence.
    You actually keep avoiding it.
    A reporters opinion is not evidence.


    So again, back to the stuff you keep avoiding, the actual evidence.

    Lets see if you will at least be honest here. (so far you have failed)

    The evidence says that Davis was the only one angry and irate and it was directed towards Dunn.
    It also shows that Davis got out of the Durango as Dunn stated.

    So for what purpose do you suppose the angry and irate Davis got out of the vehicle?
    The only logical conclusion from the evidence would be to carry through with his threats to Dunn.
    No other reason exists.
    Try debating the actual evidence for once.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    1. Dunn shot unarmed teens. No one pointed a shotgun at Dunn. Wrong again. He shot one person who had something in his hand which Dunn interpreted as a gun.

    2. Davis was inside the vehicle when shot. Already shown to be false in trial.

    3. The vehicle was attempting to drive away when Dunn opened fire. No. The vehicle backed up and stopped behind him, feet away. Which is when he opened fire on the threat again. Stopping behind him is not attempting to drive away.

    4. Dunn never reported his shooting to the police. Irrelevant. People act differently.

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    As The New York Times reported:

    In the end, the jury found that Mr. Dunn intended to kill Mr. Davis and acted with premeditation as he reached into his glove compartment for his gun and fired 10 times at Mr. Davis and the Durango, even as it pulled away to evade the gunfire.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/02/us...c-dispute.html

    A reporters opinion is irrelevant.
    Funny you do not know that even though it has repeatedly been pointed pout to you.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I'm still waiting for the link that the first jury accepted Dunn's self-defense alibi and acquitted him. There will be no such link, because that's not what happened. Instead, there was a deadlock on the premeditated murder charge.
    You again are misrepresenting the argument.
    All because you do not know what you are talking about.
    Three jurors wanted to acquit him.
    And yes, you were already given the link to it.
    So stop with the dishonesty and lies already.
    Last edited by Excon; 10-26-14 at 02:57 PM.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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  2. #132
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    Re: Jury: Ex-Blackwater contractors guilty in 'outrageous' Nusoor Square shooting

    Using my newfound powers of rationality and non-absurdity, I shall address your points.....

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post

    1. Dunn shot unarmed teens. No one pointed a shotgun at Dunn.
    The courageous Dunn allegedly THOUGHT they did though, that's good enough for me.

    2. Davis was inside the vehicle when shot.
    Using the armored vehicle to re-load his non-existent weapon, no doubt.

    3. The vehicle was attempting to drive away when Dunn opened fire.
    That's because they were trying to perpetrate one of those drive-by shooting thingys. They're very popular with teens nowadays.

    4. Dunn never reported his shooting to the police.
    He was too drunk.

    .
    No matter how cynical I become toward politicians, it's never enough.

  3. #133
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    Re: Jury: Ex-Blackwater contractors guilty in 'outrageous' Nusoor Square shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by radioman View Post
    Using my newfound powers of rationality and non-absurdity, I shall address your points.....

    Which of course are powers of absurdity and non-rationality.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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  4. #134
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    Re: Jury: Ex-Blackwater contractors guilty in 'outrageous' Nusoor Square shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    More dishonesty on your part. You are purposely misrepresenting the argument.
    It was about specific Jurors who believed his account, as they wanted to acquit.
    After repeated requests, it's pretty clear the claim that a jury had accepted Dunn's self-defense alibi is without any basis in fact. what one had seen was a deadlock on premeditated murder (not a unanimous position either). Given no link has been furnished about the jury--not individual jurors' views--it's abundantly clear that the claim is without foundation.

    More dishonesty from you, which is to be expected in every post you make.
    More evasion. Just post the link.

    I already provided the information that three jurors wanted to acquit. Do you not know what the word acquit means.
    Three is not all jurors. Three jurors is not the jury. As noted previously, there was a deadlock on the premeditated murder charge.

    She was destroyed on cross and by the testimony of another expert.
    Your fault again for not knowing the actual evidence.
    Only your opinion. Had she been "destroyed," the self-defense alibi would have been sustained and Dunn would be a free man today.

    He was not seated when shot.
    According to the Medical Examiner, he was seated.

    So again, back to the stuff you keep avoiding, the actual evidence.
    I've posted links to the news stories covering the trial disclosing key elements: 1. Davis and the teens were unarmed; 2. Davis was seated when shot; 3. The Durango was trying to drive away when Dunn opened fire.

    Lets see if you will at least be honest here. (so far you have failed)
    Rather than making the issue about my "honesty," I've provided the links including those from CBS News, The Washington Post, and The New York Times, etc., reporting the major facts of the case. From the reported evidence, there was no actual imminent threat to Dunn's life or of serious harm, had there been a perceived threat, it had ended as the teens were trying to drive away. The conditions for self-defense were not met. Dunn was correctly convicted.

    A reporters opinion is irrelevant.
    Funny you do not know that even though it has repeatedly been pointed pout to you.
    The news pages and editorial pages are different. I've noted that distinction before. The articles I have posted are from the news pages, not editorial page or op-ed columnists. A quick summary on the difference between the journalistic side of a newspaper and the editorial side is below:

    http://www.flalib.org/value_of_libra...mpaign_FAQ.pdf

  5. #135
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    Re: Jury: Ex-Blackwater contractors guilty in 'outrageous' Nusoor Square shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    Which of course are powers of absurdity and non-rationality.
    Only in your bizarro world, Excon.
    No matter how cynical I become toward politicians, it's never enough.

  6. #136
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    Re: Jury: Ex-Blackwater contractors guilty in 'outrageous' Nusoor Square shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by radioman View Post
    Only in your bizarro world, Excon.
    Wrong.
    As the claim was yours and was wrong. The claim resides in your bizarro world.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Jury: Ex-Blackwater contractors guilty in 'outrageous' Nusoor Square shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    After repeated requests, it's pretty clear the claim that a jury had accepted Dunn's self-defense alibi is without any basis in fact. what one had seen was a deadlock on premeditated murder (not a unanimous position either). Given no link has been furnished about the jury--not individual jurors' views--it's abundantly clear that the claim is without foundation.
    More nonsense form you.
    "not individual jurors' views" Yes individual juror's views, as that was what was being tallied about.
    Not the view of the whole jury as you want it to be, as it can't be as it was hung.
    Or do yo not understand what "hung" means?
    And the link was provided. So stop lying and characterizing the argument made.
    It was about the juror's believing his account. Which has been proven.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    More evasion. Just post the link.
    Yes, more evasion from you as it was already provided.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Three is not all jurors. Three jurors is not the jury. As noted previously, there was a deadlock on the premeditated murder charge.
    No there wasn't, nor could there have been with three wanting to acquit.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Only your opinion. Had she been "destroyed," the self-defense alibi would have been sustained and Dunn would be a free man today.

    According to the Medical Examiner, he was seated.
    While it is an opinion, what you just said is wrong.
    It doesn't mean any such thing you say.

    She wasn't even told that Davis was out of the vehicle or of any of Dunn's account. She was told by investigators that Davis was sitting in the vehicle when he was shot so she made her finding in accord with what she was told.

    Then she was further destroyed by an expert.
    Her findings were not in accord with the trajectory analysis.
    She was not credible.

    You can pretend all you want, but he was not seated when he was shot.

    But then again, you do not know the evidence, so how would you know you are speaking nonsense.

    Juries get things wrong all the time.
    This is just another example that they did.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I've posted links to the news stories covering the trial disclosing key elements: 1. Davis and the teens were unarmed; 2. Davis was seated when shot; 3. The Durango was trying to drive away when Dunn opened fire.
    You posted?
    iLOL
    You haven't posted anything of relevance.

    That is not the evidence and those claims have been corrected with the actual evidence.
    Yet you keep ignoring the actual evidence, which is dishonest.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Rather than making the issue about my "honesty," I've provided the links including those from CBS News, The Washington Post, and The New York Times, etc., reporting the major facts of the case. From the reported evidence, there was no actual imminent threat to Dunn's life or of serious harm, had there been a perceived threat, it had ended as the teens were trying to drive away. The conditions for self-defense were not met. Dunn was correctly convicted.
    No your dishonesty goes directly to what you are posting.
    You have not discussed the actual evidence. The reports are irrelevant especially when the information they provided has been corrected.
    Yet you dishonestly do not pay attention to the corrections.

    So again, back to the stuff you keep avoiding, the actual evidence.
    And this evidence is undisputed.
    So try to address it for once.
    Or are you just going to dishonestly deflect again?

    Lets see if you will at least be honest here. (so far you have failed)

    The evidence says that Davis was the only one angry and irate and it was directed towards Dunn.
    It also shows that Davis got out of the Durango as Dunn stated.

    So for what purpose do you suppose the angry and irate Davis got out of the vehicle?
    The only logical conclusion from the evidence would be to carry through with his threats to Dunn.
    No other reason exists.



    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The news pages and editorial pages are different. I've noted that distinction before. The articles I have posted are from the news pages, not editorial page or op-ed columnists. A quick summary on the difference between the journalistic side of a newspaper and the editorial side is below:
    Still irrelevant.
    Funny you do not know that even though it has repeatedly been pointed pout to you.

    You posted an opinion. Not a fact.
    Nothing you just said refutes that.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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  8. #138
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    Re: Jury: Ex-Blackwater contractors guilty in 'outrageous' Nusoor Square shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Not the view of the whole jury as you want it to be, as it can't be as it was hung.
    Because the jury did not accept the self-defense alibi. Had it accepted it, Dunn would have been acquitted. He wasn't.

    Or do yo not understand what "hung" means?
    Your insults cannot compensate for the glaring lack of evidence you have furnished.

    And the link was provided. So stop lying and characterizing the argument made.
    It was about the juror's believing his account.
    I had stated that the jury didn't accept Dunn's self-defense alibi. You said I was wrong. I asked for the link. You provided none.

    While it is an opinion, what you just said is wrong.
    I said that the Medical Examiner revealed that Davis was seated. And from CBS News:

    The state's medical examiner testified that the trajectory of Dunn's bullets into Davis' body showed that Davis was sitting down when he was shot.

    Michael Dunn verdict: Jury deadlocks on murder charge - CBS News

    She wasn't even told that Davis was out of the vehicle or of any of Dunn's account. She was told by investigators that Davis was sitting in the vehicle when he was shot so she made her finding in accord with what she was told.
    Notions that she made her ruling based on a desire to fit what others told her is utterly incorrect. She made her ruling based on the trajectory of the bullet as noted in the above CBS story.

    Then she was further destroyed by an expert.
    Her findings were not in accord with the trajectory analysis.
    She was not credible.
    Only your opinion. Nothing more. Had this been the case, then Dunn would have had a legitimate claim of self-defense and would have been acquitted. That didn't happen. Rather, he was convicted.

    You can pretend all you want, but he was not seated when he was shot.
    I'm not pretending anything. The Medical Examiner, who has the requisite professional expertise to make such judgments says that Davis was seated. Indeed, if a credible alternative account were accurate, his blood would have been outside the Durango on the street. No reports to that effect exist. If they do, post the news story.

    But then again, you do not know the evidence, so how would you know you are speaking nonsense.
    More insults. No sources. Just empty rhetoric.

    Juries get things wrong all the time.
    This is just another example that they did.
    Juries can sometimes err. Prove that this jury erred. One's personal opinion is not such proof. Dunn's alibi isn't such proof either.

    As noted previously, if the jury made an error, legitimate grounds for a successful appeal exist. I highly doubt that there will be a successful appeal.

    You posted?
    iLOL
    You haven't posted anything of relevance.
    I posted links from multiple news sources including The New York Times and CBS News. You don't like the evidence so you suggest that it is "irrelevant." Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

    In contrast, I'm still waiting for the links I've asked you to provide.

    Yet you keep ignoring the actual evidence, which is dishonest.
    More insults. No sources. No evidence. Again, this doesn't change the actual facts of the case that the jury felt demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt that Dunn did not act in self-defense.

    In the end, it's clear that the claim that Dunn was "innocent" is entirely personal opinion. It has little or nothing to do with the facts and evidence of the case (the teens were unarmed, Davis was seated in the vehicle when he was murdered, the Durango was attempting to drive away when Dunn attacked the teens). It solely depends on Dunn's account being credible, something that it wasn't. He never told his fiancé about any shotgun, because he very likely created the narrative of a shotgun sometime later. He didn't report the incident to the police, even as any rational person who acts in self-defense would do so believing that they had acted reasonably. Even the next day, he simply left for home when no conceivable "threat" could have existed and didn't tell the police about the shooting.

    The case against him was devastating. His account was filled with gaps that precluded a successful self-defense argument. His conduct afterward in not reporting the shooting, even a day later, further undercut that he had acted in self-defense. Not surprisingly, he was convicted. While the conviction and life sentence won't bring back an innocent person, at least a measure of justice was served.

  9. #139
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    Re: Jury: Ex-Blackwater contractors guilty in 'outrageous' Nusoor Square shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    The claim resides in your bizarro world.
    Good one!!
    I see what you did there.....turning my own post against me.
    You're a clever guy....what's next from you?
    Will it be...."I know you are, but what am I?", "I'm not listening to you" or maybe the ever popular "I accept you surrender"?
    The possibilities are endless.
    However, your "bizarro world" accusation deserves in-depth thoughtful analysis.
    Let's see now....

    Excon believes firing 10 shots into an SUV is reasonable.
    Radioman does not.

    Excon believes the shooter's own delusions are sufficient cause for emptying one's magazine.
    Radioman does not.

    Excon believes the unarmed dead victim was the real thug.
    Radioman does not.

    Excon believes a convicted murderer is the victim.
    Radioman does not.

    Excon is dizzy from so much spinning.
    Radioman retains his equilibrium.

    Excon has chronic back pain as a result of bending over backwards to defend the indefensible.
    Radioman does not.

    I will leave it to our fellow posters to decide who's dwelling in a bizarro world.
    No matter how cynical I become toward politicians, it's never enough.

  10. #140
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    Re: Jury: Ex-Blackwater contractors guilty in 'outrageous' Nusoor Square shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    At least, when Americans murder women and children, there is an American judicial system that will make them pay for their heinous crimes. Let the title of "baby killers" rest with ISIS, who truly deserve the name. Americans hold themselves to a higher standard, and woe to those who violate it. Excellent verdict.

    Article is here.
    I'm against blackwater, however progressives don't have any standards. They go with the flow/ethics (when in Rome live like a Roman) rather than morals. In short they cant make moral (individualist) decisions because they don't have morals - they have ethics (collectivist).

    In short it's not what YOU feel is wrong - it's what EVERYONE ELSE feels is whats wrong...... So much for that **** called "diversity."

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