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Thread: Jury: Ex-Blackwater contractors guilty in 'outrageous' Nusoor Square shooting

  1. #101
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    Re: Jury: Ex-Blackwater contractors guilty in 'outrageous' Nusoor Square shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You do if you're working for the United States government. That protection is probably in their contract. I know I wouldn't sign a contract without out it.
    Since when do contracts with ANYONE permit and cover murder? Sorry but having a contract does not give one a license to commit murder and get away from the laws of the land. Besides, its obvious that the contract was nullified the moment it was broke. Which it was here.
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  2. #102
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    Re: Jury: Ex-Blackwater contractors guilty in 'outrageous' Nusoor Square shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisshort View Post
    post # 94
    What you said there is not relevant to what I said.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  3. #103
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    Re: Jury: Ex-Blackwater contractors guilty in 'outrageous' Nusoor Square shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisshort View Post
    As I thought, you think we have it coming. For A Canadian you seem a bit right of center but when all is said and done you are at root a Canadian and as such hold animosity towards America. Here we are calling that the Lilliputian complex and it is not just Canadians but countries all over the world that suffer this psychological condition. You may want to label this "dismissive victimhood" but it is just the reality of being the worlds superpower and I would rather be Gulliver than a Lilliputian.
    Delusional nonsense.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  4. #104
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    Re: Jury: Ex-Blackwater contractors guilty in 'outrageous' Nusoor Square shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Sorry, I believe it's the other way around.
    iLOL
    Yes, we can see what you believe, unfortunately for you, your belief is wrong and has repeated been shown to be wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    both of which rejected the shooter's self-defense alibi.
    Wrong again.
    The first one was hung.

    His claim of self defense did not apply to the other charges, which left the jury with no choice but to find guilt.
    As previously stated, had he been found not guilty this time around those findings of guilt had more than a good chance at being over turned.



    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Your opinion is noted. IMO, it is wrong.
    As is your opinion, which is wrong. As shown multiple times.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    More consequential, the juries that had all the evidence and reviewed it in its proper context also concluded that Dunn had not acted in self-defense.
    You keep arguing in circles with irrelevancies.
    The Jury's decision is irrelevant to a discussion of the evidence.
    Citing the Jury is a logical fallacy.
    And again, you saying that they "had all the evidence and reviewed it in its proper context" is also irrelevant, as we too had the same evinced they did, and actually had far more time to review it.
    So all you are doing is repeating the same dispelled arguments.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    One jury even found premeditation since he reached into his glove compartment to pull out his murder weapon at the time when the teens were trying to drive away.
    iLOL
    Please provide a link to this.
    1.) Either you are showing your ignorance of the evidence again, misstating what you read, or the Juror got it wrong.
    The vehicle was not fleeing when he reached for his firearm.

    2.) Such a belief is also absurd. Reaching for your firearm to defend yourself is not premeditated anything.

    3.) As previously provided, a juror from the first trial wanted to find him guilty because she believed he could have done something else, like park in a different spot or roll up his window (which by the way, was already up ). Had she done so, that would have been a miscarriage of justice as that is not what the law requires. It also just shows how stupid jurors can be and why they get things wrong all the time.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Given what was reported, I also believe Dunn made an "untrue assertion" of self-defense. Dunn did not act in self-defense.
    Nothing reported supports your conclusions. And actually the evidence as repeatedly shown to you supports that he was reacting to the threats by Davis.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    a "threat" that quite frankly never existed.
    And yet that isn't what the evidence supports.

    Lets see if you will at least be honest here.

    The evidence says that Davis was the only one angry and irate and it was directed towards Dunn.
    It also shows that Davis got out of the Durango as Dunn stated.

    So for what purpose do you suppose the angry and irate Davis got out of the vehicle?
    The only logical conclusion from the evidence would be to carry through with his threats to Dunn.
    No other reason exists.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    In the end, the jury found that Mr. Dunn intended to kill Mr. Davis and acted with premeditation as he reached into his glove compartment for his gun and fired 10 times at Mr. Davis and the Durango, even as it pulled away to evade the gunfire. Three bullets hit Mr. Davis...
    More illogical fallacy from you.
    And as already pointed out, you do not know why they found the way they did. And yet here you are speaking as if you do.
    Like I already pointed out. The juror from the first trial voted to find him guilty for reason that were not in accordance with the law.
    And presently you do not know if any current jurors thought the same.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Mr. Dunn fled the scene and never called the police, ...
    Irrelevant.
    He wasn't required to do so.
    And his stated reasoning is reasonable given the trauma he experienced.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    He fully deserved the sentence he received for taking an innocent life.
    As he was acting in self defense, he neither deserved the finding of guilt or the sentence imposed.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Impartial review of the evidence coupled with the legal basis for self-defense illustrates why two capable juries could only find as they did.
    Wrong.
    And Impartial review is not what happened at all. Not by you or by the jury.
    If you think that, you do not understand reality.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Dunn acted in self-defense only in an alternate reality in which the legal definition of self-defense is malleable and the suspect's alibi trumps the evidence.
    Wrong.
    You know not of what you speak. Just like you do not know the actual evidence even though it has been pointed out to you several times now.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Actual or imminent threat to one's life or of serious injury must exist (it didn't in this case, as one was dealing with unarmed teens who were attacked when leaving the scene of the argument).
    Wrong.
    The threat does not have to be actual. It has to be perceived as such.
    If you knew what you were talking about, you would know that.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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  5. #105
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    Re: Jury: Ex-Blackwater contractors guilty in 'outrageous' Nusoor Square shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    iLOL
    Yes, we can see what you believe, unfortunately for you, your belief is wrong and has repeated been shown to be wrong.

    Wrong again.
    The first one was hung.
    The above spin is incorrect. Both juries rejected the self-defense alibi as I explicitly stated. The deadlock occurred on the first degree murder charge, only.

    From CBS News:

    Florida jury found the man who shot and killed a teenager after an argument over loud music guilty of three counts of attempted second-degree murder Saturday but was deadlocked on the top count of first-degree murder, for which a mistrial was declared.

    Michael Dunn verdict: Jury deadlocks on murder charge - CBS News

    In no way whatsoever did this jury accept Dunn's alibi of self-defense. None.

    Dunn's attorneys had done the best they could. But in this case, the self-defense alibi was unsustainable. Dunn murdered a teenager who was inside his vehicle (largely defenseless and most definitely not posing any kind of threat) and when the vehicle was trying to leave the scene (which would have indicated that even if a threat existed in theory--it didn't--the threat had ended).

    From the CBS story cited above:

    The state's medical examiner testified that the trajectory of Dunn's bullets into Davis' body showed that Davis was sitting down when he was shot.

    From The New York Times:

    In the end, the jury found that Mr. Dunn intended to kill Mr. Davis and acted with premeditation as he reached into his glove compartment for his gun and fired 10 times at Mr. Davis and the Durango, even as it pulled away to evade the gunfire.

    Those are the facts. Repetition of one's personal opinion in a determined effort to claim Dunn had acted legitimately in self-defense (he didn't) does not and cannot change those facts. It is those personal opinions that are wrong, as they have no basis in the facts that the two juries found key to their decision. In the end, Dunn had an argument. He did not face an imminent threat to life or of serious harm. He attacked unarmed teens who were inside their vehicle and seeking to leave the scene of the argument. He then simply drove away and never reported his shooting to the police, something any reasonable person would have reported if he/she had truly acted in self-defense.

    This was a murder. The two juries correctly recognized it as such. The only difference was that one jury could not determine that it was premeditated murder, while the second jury found that it was a case of premeditated murder.

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    Re: Jury: Ex-Blackwater contractors guilty in 'outrageous' Nusoor Square shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Delusional nonsense.
    Interesting way to discuss and debate you have shown here

  7. #107
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    Re: Jury: Ex-Blackwater contractors guilty in 'outrageous' Nusoor Square shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Irrelevant.
    He wasn't required to do so.
    And his stated reasoning is reasonable given the trauma he experienced.
    Incorrect and also unsourced. His actions following the shooting incident formed part of the Prosecution's successful line of argument.

    From The New York Times

    This time, prosecutors homed in more forcefully on Mr. Dunn’s actions after the shooting, behavior that they said cloaked him in guilt. Mr. Dunn fled the scene and never called the police, not even after he learned that someone had died. Instead, he and the woman who was then his fiancée drove to their hotel, where he walked the dog, poured himself a rum and Coke and ordered a pizza. The next day he drove two and a half hours back to his house in Satellite Beach, where the police, who by then had his license plate number, arrested him.

    “If you are fighting to defend your life, you don’t then run from the scene,” said Angela B. Corey, the state attorney for the county, in a news conference after the verdict.


    Wrong.
    The threat does not have to be actual. It has to be perceived as such.
    As stated in #66 in this thread:

    In general, a reasonable person would have to fear imminent serious harm or threat to his/her life in order to be justified in shooting another person.

    There was no actual threat of that nature and no reasonable basis to perceive such a threat. Someone's fearing something means they perceive it.

    As there was no actual threat nor one that a reasonable person would have perceived of a nature that justified the shooting, the self-defense argument was not credible. A murder took place and the conviction and sentence were wholly warranted.

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    Re: Jury: Ex-Blackwater contractors guilty in 'outrageous' Nusoor Square shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    iLOL
    Please provide a link to this.
    I've done so on multiple occasions. Again, from The New York Times:

    In the end, the jury found that Mr. Dunn intended to kill Mr. Davis and acted with premeditation as he reached into his glove compartment for his gun and fired 10 times at Mr. Davis and the Durango, even as it pulled away to evade the gunfire

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/02/us...c-dispute.html

    Now please provide a link that the jury ruled that Dunn had acted in self-defense. The deadlock on the first degree murder charge does not constitute such a ruling, as the very same jury convicted him on the second degree murder charges. We know Dunn's alibi. But neither jury accepted it.

  9. #109
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    Re: Jury: Ex-Blackwater contractors guilty in 'outrageous' Nusoor Square shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The above spin is incorrect. Both juries rejected the self-defense alibi as I explicitly stated. The deadlock occurred on the first degree murder charge, only.
    And what you stated is incorrect. It was hung on the subject we are speaking about.
    All you are doing is showing that you do not know what you are talking about.
    He could not claim self defense against those teens as they did nothing for him to defend himself against.
    And as already pointed out, the jury had no choice but to find the way they did in regards to those charges.

    Which again, is irrelevant to this discussion.

    As is everything else you have provided.



    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The state's medical examiner testified that the trajectory of Dunn's bullets into Davis' body showed that Davis was sitting down when he was shot.
    This was already addressed when she testified.
    She was not credible and was shown to be wrong by the evidence.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    In the end, the jury found that Mr. Dunn intended to kill Mr. Davis and acted with premeditation as he reached into his glove compartment for his gun and fired 10 times at Mr. Davis and the Durango, even as it pulled away to evade the gunfire.
    The sheer stupidity of it all.
    A reporters opinion is not evidence of why a jury found the way they did.
    Just more failure from you.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Those are the facts.
    No those are not the facts.
    Funny that you actually think they are.
    The actual facts includes the evidence that I keep pointing out to you which you continually ignore because it doesn't fit your position.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Repetition of one's personal opinion
    Which is what you are doing. A personal opinion based on the logical fallacy of an appeal to authority. Which is a foolish position considering that this is about the evidence, not what the a found.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    This was a murder.
    That is not what the evidence says. You know, that stuff that you wont discuss.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The two juries correctly recognized it as such.
    That is not what the evidence says. You know, that stuff that you wont discuss.


    So again, back to the actual evidence.

    Lets see if you will at least be honest here.

    The evidence says that Davis was the only one angry and irate and it was directed towards Dunn.
    It also shows that Davis got out of the Durango as Dunn stated.

    So for what purpose do you suppose the angry and irate Davis got out of the vehicle?
    The only logical conclusion from the evidence would be to carry through with his threats to Dunn.
    No other reason exists.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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  10. #110
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    Re: Jury: Ex-Blackwater contractors guilty in 'outrageous' Nusoor Square shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I've done so on multiple occasions. Again, from The New York Times:

    In the end, the jury found that Mr. Dunn intended to kill Mr. Davis and acted with premeditation as he reached into his glove compartment for his gun and fired 10 times at Mr. Davis and the Durango, even as it pulled away to evade the gunfire

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/02/us...c-dispute.html

    Now please provide a link that the jury ruled that Dunn had acted in self-defense. The deadlock on the first degree murder charge does not constitute such a ruling, as the very same jury convicted him on the second degree murder charges. We know Dunn's alibi. But neither jury accepted it.
    This was already addressed.
    You have not shown any such thing.
    A reporters opinion is not fact of why a jury found the way they did.
    Funny that you think it means anything.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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