Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say how

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

tres borrachos said:

Yes, I know. It's A-okay for the Congress to have sexists in their ranks. It's just not okay when corporations or other businesses have sexists in their ranks. Senator Warren encourages women to fight sexism. She just doesn't want to do it herself. I guess leading by example isn't in her. I think the example she set here is "Ignore sexism". I wonder if her constituents will decide to do exactly as she is doing.

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Just so we're clear here, you somehow, incredibly believe Warren has some kind of obligation to go PUBLIC and make accusations on the record with the press of instances of sexism, or she is condoning the practice? It's so absurd I can't believe you're expecting anyone to buy it. If someone gave my wife that advice I'd have to think the person was either 1) utterly and completely ignorant of the real world, or 2) wanted to purposely undermine her career. Whatever the case, I'd sure as hell tell my wife to ignore everything that person said about advice for women in the workplace, which wouldn't be necessary because she knows far better than I what awful advice that is.

Just to point out the obvious, often the best way to deal with sexist co-workers is to confront the worker, directly, when the bad behavior occurs. The absolute worst way is to go whining to HR or the boss about every perceived or real sexist slight in the workplace. If you're in a male dominated field, and Warren has spent a career in such fields, and cannot PERSONALLY handle the vast majority of such incidents, you need to get a new career, or at least a new job.

There are exceptions to everything and behavior that veers into sexual HARASSMENT can't be ignored and may require legal action, and obviously some instances or repeated instances of sexism require drastic action, but to assume that there is ONE option here for Warren - go public with names, dates, times details - is just unbelievably boneheaded. The root of most sexism is a fundamental lack of respect for women as professionals (in this case). The best way to gain respect and deal with sexist coworkers is to do your job competently, stand up for yourself when needed, and have enough common sense to pick your battles and reserve them for things that matter. Option 1 just is NOT to go public to the press/boss/HR.

BTW, did a simple Google search, and this came up: 3 Reasons Why It Pays to Not Let Sexist Comments Slide - Forbes

It's obviously not the only advice or the best advice for all circumstances, but the gist of is summarized in this sentence: "Well, it turns out that there are three very good reasons why you should confront the perpetrator of a sexist comment." It's obviously good advice.

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

tres borrachos said:

I never suggested she lie. I am saying she should out them.

I'll remember this the next time she's stumping and tells other women to stand up to sexism. She isn't. She's a piss poor leader and a hypocrite expecting other people to do it, but not doing it herself.

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I said it on the previous post, but I'll just repeat that there is not just ONE way to stand up to sexism in the workplace - go public.

And you're calling her a "piss poor leader" and a "hypocrite" - strong words!!! - but oddly haven't quoted her doling out advice about sexism in the workforce that she isn't following. What exactly does Warren advise women to do when facing sexism at work? I'm interested, but I looked and couldn't find her advice anywhere. Please quote her so we can know what Warren said, and see where she's being hypocritical. Thanks in advance.

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

radcen said:

This. If she's going to confirm it happened, then give examples and/or name names. If she's not going to give examples and/or name names, then she should just STFU as she's just as spineless as every other politician.

So much for being the champion and shining example for the little person, eh?

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How would you expect her to answer in a way that's honest but doesn't sidetrack her from her primary goals?

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

Cardinal said:

How would you expect her to answer in a way that's honest but doesn't sidetrack her from her primary goals?

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"No Comment" isn't so hard.

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

jmotivator said:

"No Comment" isn't so hard.

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Is your name "radcen?"

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

Cardinal said:

How would you expect her to answer in a way that's honest but doesn't sidetrack her from her primary goals?

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She doesn't have to answer at all. She could say 'No comment' as the other poster said, but that always comes off as kind of shady in its abruptness. Maybe something like, "I'd like to reserve comment for the time being until I have a deeper understanding of the atmosphere in Congress.", or something to that effect*. That would indicate that she is aware of the issue, but is still relatively new and doesn't want to jump the gun.

*-That was just off the top of my head. I'd hope she'd phrase it better then I did.

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

radcen said:

She doesn't have to answer at all. She could say 'No comment' as the other poster said, but that always comes off as kind of shady in its abruptness. Maybe something like, "I'd like to reserve comment for the time being until I have a deeper understanding of the atmosphere in Congress.", or something to that effect*. That would indicate that she is aware of the issue, but is still relatively new and doesn't want to jump the gun.

*-That was just off the top of my head. I'd hope she'd phrase it better then I did.

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Provided that some form of different treatment is in fact taking place, I don't think there was a "correct" answer that her detractors would have found acceptable.

No = lying. That's obviously a no-go.
No comment = "yes," and as you said abrupt. It's also evasive.
Your suggestion = weasel wording (as far as conservatives would deem them)
Yes but no comment = this thread
Yes with an explanation of who is responsible for the poor treatment = a ****storm that would split her attention between this matter and the reasons she actually wants to be in congress. This is obviously the approach her detractors would have preferred.

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

Cardinal said:

Provided that some form of different treatment is in fact taking place, I don't think there was a "correct" answer that her detractors would have found acceptable.

No = lying. That's obviously a no-go.
No comment = "yes," and as you said abrupt. It's also evasive.
Your suggestion = weasel wording (as far as conservatives would deem them)
Yes but no comment = this thread
Yes with an explanation of who is responsible for the poor treatment = a ****storm that would split her attention between this matter and the reasons she actually wants to be in congress. This is obviously the approach her detractors would have preferred.

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Sometimes 'weasel wording' is the only better option, but yes, it will always be portrayed negatively by the opposition. That makes it incumbent on us to know the difference and not fall for the crap rhetoric the partied vested interests try to spin for us. I have been around long enough to know that there is a time and a place for everything, and *now* might not be the time or place to respond.

As someone who wants to portray herself as the standard bearer of calling out the elephant in the room... i.e.: when she says things like, "I'm really concerned that too big to fail has become too big to jail. That just seems wrong to me.", and, "I believe the playing field is rigged. Evidence of that is everywhere. Now I've been in the Senate for nearly a year and believe as strongly as ever that the system is rigged for powerful interests and against working families.", then she needs to do your last suggestion if she wants to be taken seriously (by the voters). Otherwise she just comes off as just another politician.

And this is precisely my frustration with her. Sometimes she says and does something wonderful. She gives the impression that she is actually wanting to represent the average citizen. Then, other times, she says something that makes her look like just another common political shill, like recently when she blamed Republicans solely for <something> at a recent Al Franken campaign event.

Make up your mind, Ms Warren...

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

radcen said:

Sometimes 'weasel wording' is the only better option, but yes, it will always be portrayed negatively by the opposition. That makes it incumbent on us to know the difference and not fall for the crap rhetoric the partied vested interests try to spin for us. I have been around long enough to know that there is a time and a place for everything, and *now* might not be the time or place to respond.

As someone who wants to portray herself as the standard bearer of calling out the elephant in the room... i.e.: when she says things like, "I'm really concerned that too big to fail has become too big to jail. That just seems wrong to me.", and, "I believe the playing field is rigged. Evidence of that is everywhere. Now I've been in the Senate for nearly a year and believe as strongly as ever that the system is rigged for powerful interests and against working families.", then she needs to do your last suggestion if she wants to be taken seriously (by the voters). Otherwise she just comes off as just another politician.

And this is precisely my frustration with her. Sometimes she says and does something wonderful. She gives the impression that she is actually wanting to represent the average citizen. Then, other times, she says something that makes her look like just another common political shill, like recently when she blamed Republicans solely for <something> at a recent Al Franken campaign event.

Make up your mind, Ms Warren...

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I simply don't see the hypocrisy here. Obviously she's aware of negative treatment of women in congress, obviously she disapproves of it and obviously she wishes it wouldn't exist, but she's also very clearly communicated that she has larger priorities. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion on a matter yet still prioritize something else to the top of thier list. If Warren did decide that chauvinism was a priority and decided to press that issue, I would have supported her in that. To put it in cruder terms, Elizabeth Warren is not strictly required to be defined by her vagina.

But I suspect our disagreement largely comes down to a preference for different communication styles. You found her to be politician-y, while I found her answer to be entirely appropriate and forthright in recognition of the larger picture of her having more important issues to deal with.

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

Cardinal said:

I simply don't see the hypocrisy here. Obviously she's aware of negative treatment of women in congress, obviously she disapproves of it and obviously she wishes it wouldn't exist, but she's also very clearly communicated that she has larger priorities. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion on a matter yet still prioritize something else to the top of thier list. If Warren did decide that chauvinism was a priority and decided to press that issue, I would have supported her in that. To put it in cruder terms, Elizabeth Warren is not strictly required to be defined by her vagina.

But I suspect our disagreement largely comes down to a preference for different communication styles. You found her to be politician-y, while I found her answer to be entirely appropriate and forthright in recognition of the larger picture of her having more important issues to deal with.

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As far as the topic of this thread, I think 'hypocrisy' is too strong. I don't see it as that, per se. I didn't mean to convey that, if I did. I found her answer to be disingenuous. No answer would not have been ideal either, but I think it would have been better, in a relative sense. But you're right, I did find it to be politician-y.

And I completely agree with your point regarding prioritizing pet issues. For example, my two primary pet issues are civil asset forfeiture and wrongful convictions. I have been chastised in the past because I didn't put abortion or immigration or something else equal with those two. :shrug: I'm sorry, but I just don't. Sue me. I don't feel the obligation to solve all the world's problems, just a few.

And to be fair, this is where I as an average citizen has the luxury to voice my preferences, whereas a politician is in a no-win position. They have to pretend that everything is equal, even though we all really know they aren't.

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

Anthony60 said:

Yes, everything is "hilarious" when the left is called out for their dysfunctional, sometimes despicable behavior. Ha ha, what a joke. Not much of a defense, though.

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Looney projection and hypocritical behavior is always hilarious to most people. Keep it coming.

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

tres borrachos said:

Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say how

Sen. Elizabeth Warren says she has been treated differently as a woman in Congress.

But unlike Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, who opened up about her experience with sexism on Capitol Hill in a recent book, Warren — the first woman ever elected to the U.S. Senate from Massachusetts — won't elaborate.

In an interview with CNN scheduled to air Wednesday, Warren was asked whether she had experienced treatment similar to what Gillibrand described.

"Yes," Warren said.

Would she care to elaborate?

"Nope," she said. "I've said all I'm going to say."

<snip>


First off, she looks nuts in that picture.

Second, she (and her Democratic counterparts in DC) push female citizens to fight against treatment like this, at the risk of alienating their bosses and co-workers, etc. But Senator Warren doesn't want to name names? Doesn't want to provide specifics? Doesn't want to fight it?

What am I missing here?

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Of course she won't say how because she hasn't...

She want's to play the "war on woman" card but is afraid of getting laughed at...

Sorry progressives your "poor oppressed me" trump spade only lasts for so long, after a while it gets old and becomes a joke...

You ever hear of "the boy that cried wolf?" Yeah, well Warren has shed plenty of tears...

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

Mr.Nick said:

Of course she won't say how because she hasn't...

She want's to play the "war on woman" card but is afraid of getting laughed at...

Sorry progressives your "poor oppressed me" trump spade only lasts for so long, after a while it gets old and becomes a joke...

You ever hear of "the boy that cried wolf?" Yeah, well Warren has shed plenty of tears...

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By the way, you do know she was asked if women were treated differently, and that's why she said that, right? I want to make sure that if you say something really really stupid, you say it knowing all the facts.

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

Cardinal said:

By the way, you do know she was asked if women were treated differently, and that's why she said that, right? I want to make sure that if you say something really really stupid, you say it knowing all the facts.

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Well, in the real world we call that "subjective" bull**** or playing victim..

BTW, do you realize this isn't Warrens first "I'm a silent victim" or "I'm oppressed" nonsense implication? Hell, shes basically said it numerous times..

Of course in the progressive mind anyone who DISAGREES with a female progressive or minority progressive is deemed a "racist or misogynist" .... As if intelligent people should concede to you to PROVE to you we're not. No, that's what you do to prove yourself "worthy" amongst your peers, however I'm an individual and I can think for myself - I'm not in the business of being "liked" and I could care less if I am.

Warren is basically playing the same game a 3-year old plays when they want a cookie: "mommy you wont give me a cookie - you don't love me."

Get it?

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

Mr.Nick said:

Well, in the real world we call that "subjective" bull**** or playing victim..

BTW, do you realize this isn't Warrens first "I'm a silent victim" or "I'm oppressed" nonsense implication? Hell, shes basically said it numerous times..

Of course in the progressive mind anyone who DISAGREES with a female progressive or minority progressive is deemed a "racist or misogynist" .... As if intelligent people should concede to you to PROVE to you we're not. No, that's what you do to prove yourself "worthy" amongst your peers, however I'm an individual and I can think for myself - I'm not in the business of being "liked" and I could care less if I am.

Warren is basically playing the same game a 3-year old plays when they want a cookie: "mommy you wont give me a cookie - you don't love me."

Get it?

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In an interview with CNN scheduled to air Wednesday, Warren was asked whether she had experienced treatment similar to what Gillibrand described.

"Yes," Warren said.

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Okay, so how does she respond while being a)honest and b) not a victim.

Share with us.

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

Cardinal said:

Okay, so how does she respond while being a)honest and b) not a victim.

Share with us.

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She responds by telling the truth - not what she believes justifies her knee-jerk actions and reactions - but the ****ing truth...

What the hell does she want and why? I want the truth - not any of this nonsense of "its for the woman or kids" bull**** but the truth.

The truth is even SHE doesn't know what the truth is.... She has been lying for so long that her lies have become truth to her - just like EVERY progressive.

Warrens message is PLAINLY CLEAR and it's -- "if you don't agree with everything I have to say then you hate woman."

Do you have any idea how offensive and simpleminded that is to an individual?

I may as well say to you that if you dont agree with me then you're biased against libertarians and the Bill of Rights (which most are by de facto if they defend Warren)...

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

Mr.Nick said:

She responds by telling the truth - not what she believes justifies her knee-jerk actions and reactions - but the ****ing truth...

What the hell does she want and why? I want the truth - not any of this nonsense of "its for the woman or kids" bull**** but the truth.

The truth is even SHE doesn't know what the truth is.... She has been lying for so long that her lies have become truth to her - just like EVERY progressive.

Warrens message is PLAINLY CLEAR and it's -- "if you don't agree with everything I have to say then you hate woman."

Do you have any idea how offensive and simpleminded that is to an individual?

I may as well say to you that if you dont agree with me then you're biased against libertarians and the Bill of Rights (which most are by de facto if they defend Warren)...

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The "****" and the CAPSLOCK convinced me.

:roll:

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

radcen said:

The "****" and the CAPSLOCK convinced me.

:roll:

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I hope so...

The caps lock did it's job....

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

Cardinal said:

Uh huh. So this would have nothing to do with any sort of desire on your part to see her sidetracked from her primary goals?

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If you are asking if I'm a fan of Warren's the answer is no. But what does that have to do with the Yahoo article (and many others who also said the same thing Yahoo did)?

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

SheWolf said:

The issue shouldn't be only about Senator Elizabeth Warren or only democratic women, nor does Warren speak for all women. One feminist isn't the spokesperson for all women. We shouldn't judged or measured up to Warren. The real issue here should be sexual harassment.

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Correct, the real issue is sexual harassment. So are you okay with the men in Congress being sexists?

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

JasperL said:

Just so we're clear here, you somehow, incredibly believe Warren has some kind of obligation to go PUBLIC and make accusations on the record with the press of instances of sexism, or she is condoning the practice? It's so absurd I can't believe you're expecting anyone to buy it. If someone gave my wife that advice I'd have to think the person was either 1) utterly and completely ignorant of the real world, or 2) wanted to purposely undermine her career. Whatever the case, I'd sure as hell tell my wife to ignore everything that person said about advice for women in the workplace, which wouldn't be necessary because she knows far better than I what awful advice that is.

Just to point out the obvious, often the best way to deal with sexist co-workers is to confront the worker, directly, when the bad behavior occurs. The absolute worst way is to go whining to HR or the boss about every perceived or real sexist slight in the workplace. If you're in a male dominated field, and Warren has spent a career in such fields, and cannot PERSONALLY handle the vast majority of such incidents, you need to get a new career, or at least a new job.

There are exceptions to everything and behavior that veers into sexual HARASSMENT can't be ignored and may require legal action, and obviously some instances or repeated instances of sexism require drastic action, but to assume that there is ONE option here for Warren - go public with names, dates, times details - is just unbelievably boneheaded. The root of most sexism is a fundamental lack of respect for women as professionals (in this case). The best way to gain respect and deal with sexist coworkers is to do your job competently, stand up for yourself when needed, and have enough common sense to pick your battles and reserve them for things that matter. Option 1 just is NOT to go public to the press/boss/HR.

BTW, did a simple Google search, and this came up: 3 Reasons Why It Pays to Not Let Sexist Comments Slide - Forbes

It's obviously not the only advice or the best advice for all circumstances, but the gist of is summarized in this sentence: "Well, it turns out that there are three very good reasons why you should confront the perpetrator of a sexist comment." It's obviously good advice.

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Nope. I think she should just continue what she's doing....telling other women to fight against sexism while doing nothing about it herself. Then her hypocrisy is on full parade.

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

Cardinal said:

How would you expect her to answer in a way that's honest but doesn't sidetrack her from her primary goals?

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Equality among the sexes isn't one of her primary goals?

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

tres borrachos said:

Nope. I think she should just continue what she's doing....telling other women to fight against sexism while doing nothing about it herself. Then her hypocrisy is on full parade.

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What advice did she give that she's not following herself? Not what you've made up and attributed to her, but what she actually SAID.

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

JasperL said:

What advice did she give that she's not following herself? Not what you've made up and attributed to her, but what she actually SAID.

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Oh, no advice at all. She's following the new Democratic Party chant. "Speak out against sexism and inequality....just don't do anything about it". It's a sure winning strategy.

Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

Cardinal said:

By the way, you do know she was asked if women were treated differently, and that's why she said that, right? I want to make sure that if you say something really really stupid, you say it knowing all the facts.

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That isn't actually what happened.

Gillibrand has been claiming that she has been mistreated by male members of Congress. Warren was asked if she has experienced the same treatment (not women in general). She said she had, and when asked for details, she declined to give them.

Mr. Nick didn't say anything stupid at all in that post.