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Thread: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say how

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    Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Yes, I know. It's A-okay for the Congress to have sexists in their ranks. It's just not okay when corporations or other businesses have sexists in their ranks. Senator Warren encourages women to fight sexism. She just doesn't want to do it herself. I guess leading by example isn't in her. I think the example she set here is "Ignore sexism". I wonder if her constituents will decide to do exactly as she is doing.
    Just so we're clear here, you somehow, incredibly believe Warren has some kind of obligation to go PUBLIC and make accusations on the record with the press of instances of sexism, or she is condoning the practice? It's so absurd I can't believe you're expecting anyone to buy it. If someone gave my wife that advice I'd have to think the person was either 1) utterly and completely ignorant of the real world, or 2) wanted to purposely undermine her career. Whatever the case, I'd sure as hell tell my wife to ignore everything that person said about advice for women in the workplace, which wouldn't be necessary because she knows far better than I what awful advice that is.

    Just to point out the obvious, often the best way to deal with sexist co-workers is to confront the worker, directly, when the bad behavior occurs. The absolute worst way is to go whining to HR or the boss about every perceived or real sexist slight in the workplace. If you're in a male dominated field, and Warren has spent a career in such fields, and cannot PERSONALLY handle the vast majority of such incidents, you need to get a new career, or at least a new job.

    There are exceptions to everything and behavior that veers into sexual HARASSMENT can't be ignored and may require legal action, and obviously some instances or repeated instances of sexism require drastic action, but to assume that there is ONE option here for Warren - go public with names, dates, times details - is just unbelievably boneheaded. The root of most sexism is a fundamental lack of respect for women as professionals (in this case). The best way to gain respect and deal with sexist coworkers is to do your job competently, stand up for yourself when needed, and have enough common sense to pick your battles and reserve them for things that matter. Option 1 just is NOT to go public to the press/boss/HR.

    BTW, did a simple Google search, and this came up: 3 Reasons Why It Pays to Not Let Sexist Comments Slide - Forbes

    It's obviously not the only advice or the best advice for all circumstances, but the gist of is summarized in this sentence: "Well, it turns out that there are three very good reasons why you should confront the perpetrator of a sexist comment." It's obviously good advice.
    Last edited by JasperL; 10-26-14 at 01:15 AM.

  2. #252
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I never suggested she lie. I am saying she should out them.

    I'll remember this the next time she's stumping and tells other women to stand up to sexism. She isn't. She's a piss poor leader and a hypocrite expecting other people to do it, but not doing it herself.
    I said it on the previous post, but I'll just repeat that there is not just ONE way to stand up to sexism in the workplace - go public.

    And you're calling her a "piss poor leader" and a "hypocrite" - strong words!!! - but oddly haven't quoted her doling out advice about sexism in the workforce that she isn't following. What exactly does Warren advise women to do when facing sexism at work? I'm interested, but I looked and couldn't find her advice anywhere. Please quote her so we can know what Warren said, and see where she's being hypocritical. Thanks in advance.

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    Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    This. If she's going to confirm it happened, then give examples and/or name names. If she's not going to give examples and/or name names, then she should just STFU as she's just as spineless as every other politician.

    So much for being the champion and shining example for the little person, eh?
    How would you expect her to answer in a way that's honest but doesn't sidetrack her from her primary goals?

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    Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    How would you expect her to answer in a way that's honest but doesn't sidetrack her from her primary goals?
    "No Comment" isn't so hard.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    "No Comment" isn't so hard.
    Is your name "radcen?"

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    Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    How would you expect her to answer in a way that's honest but doesn't sidetrack her from her primary goals?
    She doesn't have to answer at all. She could say 'No comment' as the other poster said, but that always comes off as kind of shady in its abruptness. Maybe something like, "I'd like to reserve comment for the time being until I have a deeper understanding of the atmosphere in Congress.", or something to that effect*. That would indicate that she is aware of the issue, but is still relatively new and doesn't want to jump the gun.

    *-That was just off the top of my head. I'd hope she'd phrase it better then I did.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    She doesn't have to answer at all. She could say 'No comment' as the other poster said, but that always comes off as kind of shady in its abruptness. Maybe something like, "I'd like to reserve comment for the time being until I have a deeper understanding of the atmosphere in Congress.", or something to that effect*. That would indicate that she is aware of the issue, but is still relatively new and doesn't want to jump the gun.

    *-That was just off the top of my head. I'd hope she'd phrase it better then I did.
    Provided that some form of different treatment is in fact taking place, I don't think there was a "correct" answer that her detractors would have found acceptable.

    No = lying. That's obviously a no-go.
    No comment = "yes," and as you said abrupt. It's also evasive.
    Your suggestion = weasel wording (as far as conservatives would deem them)
    Yes but no comment = this thread
    Yes with an explanation of who is responsible for the poor treatment = a ****storm that would split her attention between this matter and the reasons she actually wants to be in congress. This is obviously the approach her detractors would have preferred.

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    Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Provided that some form of different treatment is in fact taking place, I don't think there was a "correct" answer that her detractors would have found acceptable.

    No = lying. That's obviously a no-go.
    No comment = "yes," and as you said abrupt. It's also evasive.
    Your suggestion = weasel wording (as far as conservatives would deem them)
    Yes but no comment = this thread
    Yes with an explanation of who is responsible for the poor treatment = a ****storm that would split her attention between this matter and the reasons she actually wants to be in congress. This is obviously the approach her detractors would have preferred.
    Sometimes 'weasel wording' is the only better option, but yes, it will always be portrayed negatively by the opposition. That makes it incumbent on us to know the difference and not fall for the crap rhetoric the partied vested interests try to spin for us. I have been around long enough to know that there is a time and a place for everything, and *now* might not be the time or place to respond.

    As someone who wants to portray herself as the standard bearer of calling out the elephant in the room... i.e.: when she says things like, "I'm really concerned that too big to fail has become too big to jail. That just seems wrong to me.", and, "I believe the playing field is rigged. Evidence of that is everywhere. Now I've been in the Senate for nearly a year and believe as strongly as ever that the system is rigged for powerful interests and against working families.", then she needs to do your last suggestion if she wants to be taken seriously (by the voters). Otherwise she just comes off as just another politician.

    And this is precisely my frustration with her. Sometimes she says and does something wonderful. She gives the impression that she is actually wanting to represent the average citizen. Then, other times, she says something that makes her look like just another common political shill, like recently when she blamed Republicans solely for <something> at a recent Al Franken campaign event.

    Make up your mind, Ms Warren...
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Sometimes 'weasel wording' is the only better option, but yes, it will always be portrayed negatively by the opposition. That makes it incumbent on us to know the difference and not fall for the crap rhetoric the partied vested interests try to spin for us. I have been around long enough to know that there is a time and a place for everything, and *now* might not be the time or place to respond.

    As someone who wants to portray herself as the standard bearer of calling out the elephant in the room... i.e.: when she says things like, "I'm really concerned that too big to fail has become too big to jail. That just seems wrong to me.", and, "I believe the playing field is rigged. Evidence of that is everywhere. Now I've been in the Senate for nearly a year and believe as strongly as ever that the system is rigged for powerful interests and against working families.", then she needs to do your last suggestion if she wants to be taken seriously (by the voters). Otherwise she just comes off as just another politician.

    And this is precisely my frustration with her. Sometimes she says and does something wonderful. She gives the impression that she is actually wanting to represent the average citizen. Then, other times, she says something that makes her look like just another common political shill, like recently when she blamed Republicans solely for <something> at a recent Al Franken campaign event.

    Make up your mind, Ms Warren...
    I simply don't see the hypocrisy here. Obviously she's aware of negative treatment of women in congress, obviously she disapproves of it and obviously she wishes it wouldn't exist, but she's also very clearly communicated that she has larger priorities. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion on a matter yet still prioritize something else to the top of thier list. If Warren did decide that chauvinism was a priority and decided to press that issue, I would have supported her in that. To put it in cruder terms, Elizabeth Warren is not strictly required to be defined by her vagina.

    But I suspect our disagreement largely comes down to a preference for different communication styles. You found her to be politician-y, while I found her answer to be entirely appropriate and forthright in recognition of the larger picture of her having more important issues to deal with.

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    Re: Elizabeth Warren says she's been treated differently in the Senate but won't say

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I simply don't see the hypocrisy here. Obviously she's aware of negative treatment of women in congress, obviously she disapproves of it and obviously she wishes it wouldn't exist, but she's also very clearly communicated that she has larger priorities. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion on a matter yet still prioritize something else to the top of thier list. If Warren did decide that chauvinism was a priority and decided to press that issue, I would have supported her in that. To put it in cruder terms, Elizabeth Warren is not strictly required to be defined by her vagina.

    But I suspect our disagreement largely comes down to a preference for different communication styles. You found her to be politician-y, while I found her answer to be entirely appropriate and forthright in recognition of the larger picture of her having more important issues to deal with.
    As far as the topic of this thread, I think 'hypocrisy' is too strong. I don't see it as that, per se. I didn't mean to convey that, if I did. I found her answer to be disingenuous. No answer would not have been ideal either, but I think it would have been better, in a relative sense. But you're right, I did find it to be politician-y.

    And I completely agree with your point regarding prioritizing pet issues. For example, my two primary pet issues are civil asset forfeiture and wrongful convictions. I have been chastised in the past because I didn't put abortion or immigration or something else equal with those two. I'm sorry, but I just don't. Sue me. I don't feel the obligation to solve all the world's problems, just a few.

    And to be fair, this is where I as an average citizen has the luxury to voice my preferences, whereas a politician is in a no-win position. They have to pretend that everything is equal, even though we all really know they aren't.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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