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Shooting at Canadian Parlament

It will make a huge statement to the world, perhaps a statement that those 'moderate' Muslims aren't making.

What would that statement be?
That Canada is intolerant and considers all Muslims to be terrorists?
 
Once again the Canadians are ahead of us.
I like the way a broadcaster in Toronto, Canada recently responded to the petition to build a mosque in their city.

Read below:

Jiggs McDonald, NHL Hall of Fame broadcaster speaking in Ontario , says, "I am truly perplexed that so many of my friends are against another mosque being built in Toronto . I think it should be the goal of every Canadian to be tolerant regardless of their religious beliefs. Thus the mosque should be allowed, in an effort to promote tolerance.” "That is why I also propose that two nightclubs be opened next door to the mosque; thereby promoting tolerance from within the mosque. We could call one of the clubs, which would be gay, "The Turban Cowboy," and the other, a topless bar, would be called "You Mecca Me Hot.""Next door should be a butcher shop that specializes in pork, and adjacent to that an open-pit barbecue pork restaurant, called "Iraq of Ribs.” "Across the street there could be a lingerie store called "Victoria Keeps Nothing Secret," with sexy mannequins in the window modeling the goods.” "Next door to the lingerie shop there would be room for an adult sex toy shop, "Koranal Knowledge," its name in flashing neon lights, and on the other side a liquor store called "Morehammered. "All of this would encourage Muslims to demonstrate the tolerance they demand of us." Yes, we should promote tolerance, and you can do your part by passing this on. And if you are not laughing or smiling at this point ...it is either past your bedtime, or it's midnight at the oasis and time to put your camel to bed!

:peace
 
What would that statement be? That Canada is intolerant and considers all Muslims to be terrorists?
Actually intolerance' in Canada is not a problem. It is the international intolerance of many Muslims which is the very serious problem today.

The message would be that violence will not be accepted in Canada and that more Muslims must speak out against the violence in their midst before being allowed to enter a civilized and welcoming country. It is Muslims who must change Islam, and yet polls show that too many Muslims are still committed to Sharia, apostasy, and so on. I cannot see any reason why Canada should bring in any more of these people, and the risk of being called 'intolerant' by Muslims, or leftists, would not frighten too many Canadians. The other world democracies would probably celebrate Canada for its good sense.

You can see Muslim attitudes here, yet it is Canadians who are under threat of being called "intolerant". This is madness.

The World
 
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Actually intolerance' in Canada is not a problem. It is the international intolerance of many Muslims which is the very serious problem today.

The message would be that violence will not be accepted in Canada and that more Muslims must speak out against the violence in their midst before being allowed to enter a civilized and welcoming country. It is Muslims who must change Islam, and yet polls show that too many Muslims are still committed to Sharia, apostasy, and so on. I cannot see any reason why Canada should bring in any more of these people, and the risk of being called 'intolerant' by Muslims, or leftists, would not frighten too many Canadians. The other world democracies would probably celebrate Canada for its good sense.

You can see Muslim attitudes here, yet it is Canadians who are under threat of being called "intolerant". This is madness.


The World

Well since all the Muslims that I know who immigrated here did so to get away from the nutjobs over there it would be intolerant and cruel.
Stopping these people from coming here WILL NOT stop Canadians from being converted to radical Islam and doing horrible things.

The only message refusing to let people come here based on their religion is that Canada is intolerant. However it is moot as your proposal will never happen.
 
Well since all the Muslims that I know who immigrated here did so to get away from the nutjobs over there it would be intolerant and cruel.
Then they should have the courage to speak out against the Islamic "nutjobs", but they do not.
Stopping these people from coming here WILL NOT stop Canadians from being converted to radical Islam and doing horrible things.
Really? And can you support this claim with any credible evidence?

The only message refusing to let people come here based on their religion is that Canada is intolerant. However it is moot as your proposal will never happen.
Who will be getting the message that Canada is intolerant? Are you genuinely not aware that Islam is the most intolerant belief system on the planet? Really?
 
Then they should have the courage to speak out against the Islamic "nutjobs", but they do not.
Really? And can you support this claim with any credible evidence?

Who will be getting the message that Canada is intolerant? Are you genuinely not aware that Islam is the most intolerant belief system on the planet? Really?

I think it's possible that mental illness had a lot to do with it. Possibly more than Islam. Don't ask me where I got such a silly thought.

Ottawa Shooter Thought 'Devil Was After Him'

According to Canada's 2011 National Household Survey, there were 1,053,945 Muslims in Canada or about 3.2% of the population, making them the second largest religion after Christianity and the fastest growing religion in Canada.
Islam in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Over a million Muslims. One shooting incident.
 
Then they should have the courage to speak out against the Islamic "nutjobs", but they do not.
Some do but those whom I speak are "muslim" by culture not religious and thus cannot speak for muslims in any capacity as they don't really go to or run Mosques. They basically have no more voice than you or I and if heard are not identified as speaking for muslims but for themselves.
Really? And you do you support this claim with any credible evidence?
Martin Couture-Rouleau:*«il avait le coeur noble et le cerveau déprimé» | Marie-Michèle Sioui | Attentat à St-Jean-sur-Richelieu
Sorry its in French don't have time to find English sources, this did happen here in Quebec after all and I'm having trouble with the Gazette online.

Who will be getting the message that Canada is intolerant? Are you genuinely not aware that Islam is the most intolerant belief system on the planet? Really?
The world will be getting it and it is opposite to Canadian values. I agree Canada should not allow radicals to enter let alone immigrate but go from there to a ban on all Muslims is a huge leap.
 
I think it's possible that mental illness had a lot to do with it. Possibly more than Islam. Don't ask me where I got such a silly thought.
If you read the Pew Research Poll you would see then that a great many Muslims suffer from "mental illness". I suspect that 'silly thought' of yours does not rely on any research. Those who live in democracies should nt readily assume that those who are at war with them are 'mentally ill'. Were the Germans mentally ill? The Japanese? The list goes on throughout the ages and the age you live in is really no exception.

You appear to be under the impression that there are people who believe 'all Muslims are terrorists'. Such is not the case. What I am saying that Muslim immigration into Canada should be halted indefinitely. I see no good reason why it continue when there are millions of others with more culturally compatible beliefs who want to live and work in the country.
Over a million Muslims. One shooting incident.
Actually two murders in three days, though your use of the word 'incident' is telling. It was murder.
 
I think it's possible that mental illness had a lot to do with it. Possibly more than Islam. Don't ask me where I got such a silly thought.

Ottawa Shooter Thought 'Devil Was After Him'



Over a million Muslims. One shooting incident.

I think ALL terrorist acts have a lot to do with mental illness, the cause the terrorist is following is just a manifestation of the illness.
 
If you read the Pew Research Poll you would see then that a great many Muslims suffer from "mental illness". I suspect that 'silly thought' of yours does not rely on any research. Those who live in democracies should nt readily assume that those who are at war with them are 'mentally ill'. Were the Germans mentally ill? YES The Japanese? YES The list goes on throughout the ages and the age you live in is really no exception.

You appear to be under the impression that there are people who believe 'all Muslims are terrorists'. Such is not the case. What I am saying that Muslim immigration into Canada should be halted indefinitely. I see no good reason why it continue when there are millions of others with more culturally compatible beliefs who want to live and work in the country.
Of course mental illness is not an excuse for what happens, more an explanation.
 
Some do but those whom I speak are "muslim" by culture not religious and thus cannot speak for muslims in any capacity as they don't really go to or run Mosques. They basically have no more voice than you or I and if heard are not identified as speaking for muslims but for themselves.
If they are Muslim 'by culture', then thay are not Muslims. Islam is a religion.
Martin Couture-Rouleau:*«il avait le coeur noble et le cerveau déprimé» | Marie-Michèle Sioui | Attentat à St-Jean-sur-Richelieu Sorry its in French don't have time to find English sources, this did happen here in Quebec after all and I'm having trouble with the Gazette online.
No problem. I'm very familiar with what happened.
The world will be getting it and it is opposite to Canadian values. I agree Canada should not allow radicals to enter let alone immigrate but go from there to a ban on all Muslims is a huge leap.
I believe most of the democracies would applaud Canada's move.

Do you feel that is western Europeans had another chance that they would still accept Muslims into their countries? Are you really aware of the social problems they are having in Belgium, Austria, Germany, Britain, etc.?
 
Of course mental illness is not an excuse for what happens, more an explanation.
Those who want Sharia imposed on the world are not necessarily 'mentally ill'. They just have different philosophies and attitudes than those raised in liberal democracies, with many of them being quite militant and overly enthusiastic about their beliefs.

Is wanting homosexuality illegal 'mentally ill? Or not allowing women to drive or leave the house without a related male escort 'mentally ill'? No. It is just a belief system which is in generally sharp contrast to our own.
 
If you read the Pew Research Poll you would see then that a great many Muslims suffer from "mental illness". I suspect that 'silly thought' of yours does not rely on any research. Those who live in democracies should nt readily assume that those who are at war with them are 'mentally ill'. Were the Germans mentally ill? The Japanese? The list goes on throughout the ages and the age you live in is really no exception.

I'm sure a great many of them do suffer from mental illness. I did not say that those at war with us are mentally ill (though you probably could make a case for Hitler being ill)



Actually two murders in three days, though your use of the word 'incident' is telling. It was murder.

2 murders? Wow that many? Canada must be better than I thought if you're willing to change all the immigration policies because of 2 murders. We have more kids die in the average school shooting here in the US. Strange how everyone is willing to chalk that up to mental illness...
 
You find Christian terrorism to be a problem?Actually it is about Muslims per se, and screw those young men. There is no need to import more. As soon as they get their act together then more can be accepted but Canada does not have to prove anything regarding immigration, and there are plenty of people around the world who would love to come to Canada without bringing any Islamic baggage with them, or encouraging Islamic violence here..

I was pointing out the flaw in your logic. People commit crimes for various reasons, but that doesn't mean that all in their group are by extension criminals. The vast majority of crimes in Canada are committed by young white males. That doesn't mean that all young white males should be suspect. The mistake that those with racist attitudes make is in taking a simplistic and lazy view of the world, and attributing all sorts of negative assumptions about "those people", who can actually be just about any identifiable group that one feels fearful about.

The vast majority of Muslims are not any more crime prone that anyone else, and making policy decisions based on race, ethnicity, or religion are by definition racist.
 
If they are Muslim 'by culture', then thay are not Muslims. Islam is a religion.
Ask most Quebecois what they are and they will say Catholic, ask them when is the last time they were in a church and they will not Be able to answer.
A cultural muslim is the same as a cultural christian. they identify as such.
Is your proposal to ban everyone from muslim countries or just those who claim to be muslim?

No problem. I'm very familiar with what happened.
I believe most of the democracies would applaud Canada's move.
I disagree but since it is never going to happen we will never know.

Do you feel that is western Europeans had another chance that they would still accept Muslims into their countries?
I cannot answer that question but I have no doubt there would be those on both sides of the issue.

Are you really aware of the social problems they are having in Belgium, Austria, Germany, Britain, etc.?
Yes i am aware and as far as i can tell it has far more to do with bowing down to certain demands than with immigration per se.
FYI I have no problem with any country refusing entry to those who state that they wish to try and enforce their ideals on others.
 
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Those who want Sharia imposed on the world are not necessarily 'mentally ill'. They just have different philosophies and attitudes than those raised in liberal democracies, with many of them being quite militant and overly enthusiastic about their beliefs.

Is wanting homosexuality illegal 'mentally ill? Or not allowing women to drive or leave the house without a related male escort 'mentally ill'? No. It is just a belief system which is in generally sharp contrast to our own.

Waging genocidal wars, mass murders, terrorist acts is what I was calling mental illness not having a certain philosophy or belief. Though If you want to call homophobes and misogynists mentally ill I wont stop you.
 
There is no indication that any of the Muslim attackers were mentally ill, any more than members of ISIS, suicide bombers or the Clerics encouraging them.

Mental illness was not how we labeled Nazis, Racists, Fascists, Communists, and so on. The sad fact is that we can get human beings to believe almost anything, as many experiments have demonstrated. That does not make them mentally ill however. That's just us trying to find a rational explanation for their behavior.

It may not be the "clinical diagnosis" but IMHO all terrorists are mentally ill. And it is not tryign to find a rational explanation for their behavior it is stating that there is NO rational explanation for their behavior.
 
I was pointing out the flaw in your logic. People commit crimes for various reasons, but that doesn't mean that all in their group are by extension criminals. The vast majority of crimes in Canada are committed by young white males. That doesn't mean that all young white males should be suspect.
Do you know of any young white male who is calling for the death of anyone who is not a young white male? If so you should report this immediately.
The mistake that those with racist attitudes make is in taking a simplistic and lazy view of the world, and attributing all sorts of negative assumptions about "those people", who can actually be just about any identifiable group that one feels fearful about.
We are not discussing race, however. Again you are well off the mark.

The vast majority of Muslims are not any more crime prone that anyone else, and making policy decisions based on race, ethnicity, or religion are by definition racist.
We are not discussing the "Vast majority of Muslims" either. Can't you even try to think these things through?
 
It may not be the "clinical diagnosis" but IMHO all terrorists are mentally ill. And it is not tryign to find a rational explanation for their behavior it is stating that there is NO rational explanation for their behavior.

And I believe all leftists are, by definition, stupid. There is a greater chance that I can demonstrate the ignorance of leftists then you can analyze the mind or the behavior of those who share beliefs different from your own.
 
Waging genocidal wars, mass murders, terrorist acts is what I was calling mental illness not having a certain philosophy or belief. Though If you want to call homophobes and misogynists mentally ill I wont stop you.
I believe homophobes to be ignorant, though you'd have to expand your interpretation of 'misogynist' further because the word is often used rather carelessly.
 
Do you know of any young white male who is calling for the death of anyone who is not a young white male? If so you should report this immediately.

You are dodging the issue. You have labelled all (or most) of those classified as Muslim to be a certain way. My point is you cannot, in just the same way you cannot label any group, such as young white males, as being any particular way. People are individuals, and must be seen as such.

We are not discussing race, however. Again you are well off the mark.

Another dodge. We all know we are discussing prejudice, whether based on race, religion, or ethnicity. Your preference seems to be religion.

We are not discussing the "Vast majority of Muslims" either. Can't you even try to think these things through?

OK- so enlighten me. You want to keep "Muslims" out of the country, but you are not talking about the vast majority...or are you? Who are you talking about? I think it has already been conceded here that those with obvious criminal intent, or strong anti-social values should not be allowed to enter. You began by talking about "Muslims" not being allowed to enter. Screw 'em, you said. Which ones? The traumatized family from Iran, fresh from police cells, and looking for a better life? The ones that tell you Allah decides on all things? Your own country bumpkin in bib overalls in this country will tell you God decides on all things. Or do you know what you are talking about, aside from the fact you feel threatened by folks that look just a bit different from you?
 
You are dodging the issue. You have labelled all (or most) of those classified as Muslim to be a certain way.
Then you should use the quote and rebut that.
My point is you cannot, in just the same way you cannot label any group, such as young white males, as being any particular way. People are individuals, and must be seen as such.
Yes, people are individuals but when these people gather together under a particular banner then they can be expected to be linked together under the old 'birds of a feather' adage. If they are unhappy with the teachings or behavior of that group then they should leave. But of course, in Islam, you can be put to death for this action.
Another dodge. We all know we are discussing prejudice, whether based on race, religion, or ethnicity. Your preference seems to be religion.
My preference is religion because the thread concerns the shooting of a Canadian by a Muslim terrorist. His race is not important.
OK- so enlighten me. You want to keep "Muslims" out of the country, but you are not talking about the vast majority...or are you?
When I say no more Muslims from Muslim countries should be allowed entry into Canada what do you think I mean? I really don't know how to make it any clearer.
 
Then you should use the quote and rebut that. Yes, people are individuals but when these people gather together under a particular banner then they can be expected to be linked together under the old 'birds of a feather' adage. If they are unhappy with the teachings or behavior of that group then they should leave. But of course, in Islam, you can be put to death for this action.My preference is religion because the thread concerns the shooting of a Canadian by a Muslim terrorist. His race is not important. When I say no more Muslims from Muslim countries should be allowed entry into Canada what do you think I mean? I really don't know how to make it any clearer.

Yes, you have made yourself quite clear: "It is about Muslims per se", and "no more Muslims from Muslim countries".

To you, the kid selling cell phones in Jakarta, the Lebanese restaurant owner in Sydney, the poor farmer in Bangladesh, the ignorant tribesman in Afghanistan, the social reformer in Karachi, the refugee family in Iran, the tour guide in Egypt, and a billion more, can all be judged by just two things: their religion, and their country of origin. In your simplistic view of the world, all these masses of people are cut from the same cloth, and all have the same values and morals. And in your narrow and parochial view, they are all threatening, probably because you haven't actually met many outside of your small circle, and are fearful of doing so, as that would take you outside of your comfort zone. You should give it a shot sometime though Grant. You might expand yourself.

Bye the way, this fellow was thrown out of the mosque he attempted to belong to. He was told Islam is open and accepting, views which did not coincide with his own.
 
Yes, you have made yourself quite clear: "It is about Muslims per se", and "no more Muslims from Muslim countries". To you, the kid selling cell phones in Jakarta, the Lebanese restaurant owner in Sydney, the poor farmer in Bangladesh, the ignorant tribesman in Afghanistan, the social reformer in Karachi, the refugee family in Iran, the tour guide in Egypt, and a billion more, can all be judged by just two things: their religion, and their country of origin.
Yes, exactly!
In your simplistic view of the world, all these masses of people are cut from the same cloth, and all have the same values and morals
What they share is the same set of religious beliefs. Some sympathize with terrorists and most don't. I suggest that Canada does not play Islam roulette, hoping that the Muslim they invite to emigrate to Canada is not a terrorist, or a sympathizer.. Instead I suggest we look to other countries, with people who are keen to become good Canadians and share our common values. This is wrong?
And in your narrow and parochial view, they are all threatening, probably because you haven't actually met many outside of your small circle, and are fearful of doing so, as that would take you outside of your comfort zone. You should give it a shot sometime though Grant. You might expand yourself.
Great idea!!
Bye the way, this fellow was thrown out of the mosque he attempted to belong to. He was told Islam is open and accepting, views which did not coincide with his own.
His father is Syrian.
 
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