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Thread: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Who said they're non-existent? They're just not unemployed. Those not in the Labor Force are sub-categorized by desire for work, ability to work, and reason for not looking.
    I don't even know what definition of unemployed you're using.


    That makes no sense. If they start looking again, then they are unemployed. Not sure we by you think they wouldn't be.


    No, because unemployed is defined as looking for work.


    Besides what your definition of unemployed is? I don't get what you're talking about as far as "don't exist" No one is saying people not trying to work don't exist.
    Okay, I lose my job, I am unemployed. I stop looking for a job, I am not longer unemployed although I still do not have work, but once I start looking for a job I become unemployed again. If I find a job, then I am employed. But if I am not looking, then I don't count as being unemployed even though I am unemployed. According to the government stats, if I am not looking and am unemployed I do not exist only because I am not looking. Unemployed is unemployed whether one is looking or not. You either have a job or you don't. What is so hard to understand about that.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Point made, though! Sad, but true!
    I think it boils down to the stats on unemployment are not true stats. Its been this way for a long time. At one time everyone unemployed was counted, I forget when it changed.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Stop with Obama talking points There have been no jobs. Most jobs were part time jobs

    The Workforce Part-Time Employment Ratio: Looking Better for the Core Age Group
    I'm tired of dealing with you. You've been given the numbers, you have been given the facts. Every time you get facts you just brush them off because you don't want to hear the truth. I'm done with trying to explain things to someone who clearly has no interest in the truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Show proof
    We have. Many times.
    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    I still call the government figures BS
    But you still quote them anyways when they support the point you want to make. You are the very definition of bias and partisanship.
    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Where on Earth did you get that idea from????????
    Is that what you do: just decide something is true without caring about reality?
    Yes, that's exactly what he does.

    There are groups of people in the world who do not care about facts and are more than willing to lie just so their team can win. They don't care about truth and they have no integrity. When facts show them to be wrong, they just call the facts lies, without any basis to do so. These types of people are simply nuts (or sometimes they manifest themselves as trolls) and they completely ruin any attempt at quality conversation.

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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Okay, I lose my job, I am unemployed. I stop looking for a job, I am not longer unemployed although I still do not have work, but once I start looking for a job I become unemployed again. If I find a job, then I am employed.
    Correct.

    But if I am not looking, then I don't count as being unemployed even though I am unemployed.
    No, you're not unemployed, you're "Not in the Labor Force."

    According to the government stats, if I am not looking and am unemployed I do not exist only because I am not looking.
    What do you mean by "you do not exist?" I have no idea what you mean. You would be classified as "Not in the Labor Force." If you still want a job, you would be classified as "Not in the Labor Force: wants a job now." If it's been less than 12 months since you stopped looking, and you could start work if offered, you would be "Marginally Attached to the Labor Force." If you stopped looking because you believed you'd be unsuccessful due to lack of skills, abilities, no jobs in the area or your field, or discrimination, you would be classified as "Discouraged Worker."

    Unemployed is unemployed whether one is looking or not. You either have a job or you don't. What is so hard to understand about that.
    You yourself have made distinctions. Retirees, disabled, stay home spouses, students, anyone else who is unable or does not want to work....so by the definition you're giving now...they'are unemployed. But earlier you said they shouldn't be included. You wouldn't want to include them as existing.

    Why would you call someone who is not trying to get a job unemployed? What definition are you using?
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I think it boils down to the stats on unemployment are not true stats. Its been this way for a long time. At one time everyone unemployed was counted, I forget when it changed.
    The definition has ALWAYS been "looking for work."
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I think it boils down to the stats on unemployment are not true stats. Its been this way for a long time. At one time everyone unemployed was counted, I forget when it changed.
    No one wants to look bad, so you are almost forced to try to do what you can to change the perception of the things people see. That's only a surface thing, though - the underlying cause is still there, and until that is acknowledged and corrected by providing jobs for those that want to work, fudgy numbers that no one believes will be what is provided. Human nature....

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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I think it boils down to the stats on unemployment are not true stats. Its been this way for a long time. At one time everyone unemployed was counted, I forget when it changed.
    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    No one wants to look bad, so you are almost forced to try to do what you can to change the perception of the things people see. That's only a surface thing, though - the underlying cause is still there, and until that is acknowledged and corrected by providing jobs for those that want to work, fudgy numbers that no one believes will be what is provided. Human nature....
    Kinda like changing how "Deportations" are counted.

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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    No one wants to look bad, so you are almost forced to try to do what you can to change the perception of the things people see.
    So, one change in BLS data that did occur under Obama:
    Prior to 2011, when respondents were asked how long they had been looking for work, any answer over 2 years was simply recorded as "2 years," basically making it "2 or more years."
    But in 2011, that was changed so that the actual number of weeks was recorded, up to 5 years. Now, this had no change on the UE rate or Labor Force or anything like that. It didn't even change "media number of weeks unemployed." But it did change the average number of weeks unemployed, making it a lot worse.

    So...we have one change which made things look worse.
    Talk to me about all the changes that made things look better?
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Correct.


    No, you're not unemployed, you're "Not in the Labor Force."


    What do you mean by "you do not exist?" I have no idea what you mean. You would be classified as "Not in the Labor Force." If you still want a job, you would be classified as "Not in the Labor Force: wants a job now." If it's been less than 12 months since you stopped looking, and you could start work if offered, you would be "Marginally Attached to the Labor Force." If you stopped looking because you believed you'd be unsuccessful due to lack of skills, abilities, no jobs in the area or your field, or discrimination, you would be classified as "Discouraged Worker."


    You yourself have made distinctions. Retirees, disabled, stay home spouses, students, anyone else who is unable or does not want to work....so by the definition you're giving now...they'are unemployed. But earlier you said they shouldn't be included. You wouldn't want to include them as existing.

    Why would you call someone who is not trying to get a job unemployed? What definition are you using?
    How about calling them "Lost Their Job And Stopped Looking Because They Can Get Unemployment Benefits For Over A Year And It Helps Make The Unemployment Rate Look Better".
    I could suggest a shorter name but that would open a big ol' can-o-worms.

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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Correct.


    No, you're not unemployed, you're "Not in the Labor Force."


    What do you mean by "you do not exist?" I have no idea what you mean. You would be classified as "Not in the Labor Force." If you still want a job, you would be classified as "Not in the Labor Force: wants a job now." If it's been less than 12 months since you stopped looking, and you could start work if offered, you would be "Marginally Attached to the Labor Force." If you stopped looking because you believed you'd be unsuccessful due to lack of skills, abilities, no jobs in the area or your field, or discrimination, you would be classified as "Discouraged Worker."


    You yourself have made distinctions. Retirees, disabled, stay home spouses, students, anyone else who is unable or does not want to work....so by the definition you're giving now...they'are unemployed. But earlier you said they shouldn't be included. You wouldn't want to include them as existing.

    Why would you call someone who is not trying to get a job unemployed? What definition are you using?
    The whole thing is crazy, unemployed is unemployed, working is working. Forget I said anything as it is getting us nowhere.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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