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Thread: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

  1. #131
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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I had forgotten about DADT. I'll give you that one. But claiming "victory" for a party for something that they had no involvement in making happen, SSM, is deceitful at best and is one of the many reasons why I hate the party system.
    But, like I said, we're talking about what the Democrats could campaign on. Like others, I get the feeling you think I'm trying to make an argument to get people to vote for a Democrat. I'm not. I'm talking about how the Democrats should have campaigned, but didn't.

    I would however argue that while they do get DADT they also took away peoples rights.
    While I'm going to disagree with the next part of what you say, even if it were true, it wouldn't change the fact they still had advanced civil rights (in one way). Thus they should have campaigned on how they have advanced civil rights.

    1: By allowing the NSA to continue on with what they've been doing to the American People, violating their privacy rights.
    Allowing something which has been happening for the past 10-15 years doesn't constitute taking away rights.

    2: By Obamacare's mandate which took away peoples right to choose to not buy a product from a private company.
    It didn't though. If you choose not to have health insurance, you can still not have health insurance. Nobody is forcing you to buy anything from a private company.

    Those two combined outweigh any good that repealing of DADT did imo.
    Regardless of any dispute we may have over the legitimacy of your complaints, it wouldn't change the fact we are talking about campaigning, not if one party is better than another.

    I hope that makes sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Stop the lies.
    I have not lied to you once. I've used official statistics.
    People that stop looking did not retire they could not find work.
    Umm, MANY people have retired who still had jobs. For example, my father and his wife. My mother come July 2015.

    Roughly half of the people who have dropped out of the labor force (which has been declining for a long time, mind you) in the last few years have done so due to retirement. It's not a lie, it's just a truth.

    Retirement is not included in labor participation that was breaking records and just came down
    I know retirement is not included in labor participation. That's the point. People who retire are not included in the labor force participation because they are not working nor are they looking for work. Thus, when a significant portion of the population chooses not to work because of retirement, the labor force participation rate drops.

    This is basic math.

    You ignore my links that use BLS statistics. From the hot air link
    No, I haven't ignored it at all. I've acknowledged it and explained it. Pinqy has explained it multiple times to you as well.

    The fact is more people are working now than before. It's just a fact, a fact straight from the BLS. Yes, labor force participation is down, but the number of discouraged workers (those who do not have a job and have given up looking) has dropped in half. Again, this is straight from the BLS. Roughly half of the people who have dropped out of the labor force have been retirees (with stay at home spouses, people going back to college, etc. also impacting the rating). No one is disputing with you there have been some people who are not counted as unemployed because they've given up looking for work because they don't believe they can find a job. But what I AM saying is the number of those people has dropped in half, again as stated by the BLS.

    Now I realize I'm probably spending way too much time explaining something you have no interest in hearing because it conflicts with what you want to believe, but just because you wish to stick your head in the sand, it doesn't change the fact it is all a complete truth.

  2. #132
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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I am usually one of those that do not pay attention to the unemployment rate. I know the government say it is this, then a month later they revise it which leads me to believe what the government releases the first doesn't mean anything.
    Except the unemployment rate doesn't get revised on a monthly basis, so you are clearly not speaking from knowledge.

    Then as pointed out, the unemployment rate is not really an unemployment rate, it is just the rate of people unemployed looking for jobs.
    Unemployed has always been defined as those not working who are trying to work. Nobody has ever counted retirees, stay home spouses, disabled, or students or anyone else not trying to work as unemployed.

    it can fall when there are more unemployed added to it without a corresponding number being hired
    No, that can't happen. The only way the rate can go down when the number of unemployed goes up is if employed goes up by more.

    [To me the unemployment rate should be total work force available minus all those who are not working.[/quote]
    That's not a rate. But in any case the unemployment rate IS the number of people available for work but not working divided by everyone available for work. So I'm glad you agree.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  3. #133
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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    And higher than every month before Feb 1978. But we've known for decades that the participation rate would go down in the early 21st century. The recession made it worse, but it's no surprise.


    Yes...fewer people trying to find work. The number of people who did not want a job went up 270,000
    It shows the lies of the unemployment figures. During the last 6 years more people have stopped looking for work than got jobs. Unemployment has gone down because people stopped looking for work not because of jobs
    Or fewer people started looking. There are more people looking for work now than there were 6 years ago, and more people working. But as a percent of the population, it's lower.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  4. #134
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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Stop the lies. People that stop looking did not retire they could not find work.
    That's minority reason for not looking for work. Here's the breakdown:A-38. Persons not in the labor force by desire and availability for work, age, and sex
    We're looking at the Marginally Attached: those who looked for work in the last 12 months but not the last 4 weeks who want a job and could accept a job if offered. 2,226,000
    Of those, only 698,000 say they stopped looking because they believed that they would be unsuccessful.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  5. #135
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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    But, like I said, we're talking about what the Democrats could campaign on. Like others, I get the feeling you think I'm trying to make an argument to get people to vote for a Democrat. I'm not. I'm talking about how the Democrats should have campaigned, but didn't.

    While I'm going to disagree with the next part of what you say, even if it were true, it wouldn't change the fact they still had advanced civil rights (in one way). Thus they should have campaigned on how they have advanced civil rights.

    Allowing something which has been happening for the past 10-15 years doesn't constitute taking away rights.

    It didn't though. If you choose not to have health insurance, you can still not have health insurance. Nobody is forcing you to buy anything from a private company.

    Regardless of any dispute we may have over the legitimacy of your complaints, it wouldn't change the fact we are talking about campaigning, not if one party is better than another.

    I hope that makes sense.
    I have not lied to you once. I've used official statistics.
    Umm, MANY people have retired who still had jobs. For example, my father and his wife. My mother come July 2015.

    Roughly half of the people who have dropped out of the labor force (which has been declining for a long time, mind you) in the last few years have done so due to retirement. It's not a lie, it's just a truth.

    I know retirement is not included in labor participation. That's the point. People who retire are not included in the labor force participation because they are not working nor are they looking for work. Thus, when a significant portion of the population chooses not to work because of retirement, the labor force participation rate drops.

    This is basic math.

    No, I haven't ignored it at all. I've acknowledged it and explained it. Pinqy has explained it multiple times to you as well.

    The fact is more people are working now than before. It's just a fact, a fact straight from the BLS. Yes, labor force participation is down, but the number of discouraged workers (those who do not have a job and have given up looking) has dropped in half. Again, this is straight from the BLS. Roughly half of the people who have dropped out of the labor force have been retirees (with stay at home spouses, people going back to college, etc. also impacting the rating). No one is disputing with you there have been some people who are not counted as unemployed because they've given up looking for work because they don't believe they can find a job. But what I AM saying is the number of those people has dropped in half, again as stated by the BLS.

    Now I realize I'm probably spending way too much time explaining something you have no interest in hearing because it conflicts with what you want to believe, but just because you wish to stick your head in the sand, it doesn't change the fact it is all a complete truth.
    Stop with Obama talking points There have been no jobs. Most jobs were part time jobs

    The Workforce Part-Time Employment Ratio: Looking Better for the Core Age Group

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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Or fewer people started looking. There are more people looking for work now than there were 6 years ago, and more people working. But as a percent of the population, it's lower.
    Show proof

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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Pero, I'd hate to think my parents raised me wrong, because I know they did not! Not only did they teach me that working for what you wanted was the correct thing to do in order to have self respect, but I was expected to have good manners too - and I raised my children the same way! WTH happened along the way?
    That is a good question. I do not know the answer but the society of today is completely different than when we grew up. I for one do not think it is for the better.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  8. #138
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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Show proof
    Http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS13000000
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  9. #139
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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    That's minority reason for not looking for work. Here's the breakdown:A-38. Persons not in the labor force by desire and availability for work, age, and sex
    We're looking at the Marginally Attached: those who looked for work in the last 12 months but not the last 4 weeks who want a job and could accept a job if offered. 2,226,000
    Of those, only 698,000 say they stopped looking because they believed that they would be unsuccessful.
    If they are not doing it through the government it is not counted

    What a BS chart. There are millions not working and they have less than 100,000?

    you don't like the participation figures but it is millions not in labor force

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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    There are 92 million not in labor force

    Record 92,584,000 Not in Labor Force; Participation Hits 36-Year Low | CNS News

    A record 92,584,000 Americans 16 and older did not participate in the labor force in September, as the labor force participation rate dropped to 62.7 percent, a level it has not seen in 36 years, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported on Friday.

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