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Thread: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

  1. #111
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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    I have proven you wrong and shown unemployment went down due to people that stopped looking
    And I have proven that assertion wrong by showing you more people are working now than they were in January 2009. Pinqy showed you the same thing. I also showed that assertion wrong as I linked you to the data which shows the number of discouraged workers has dropped in half. Finally, I already told you that so many of those who left the labor force did so because of retirement, not because they stopped looking.

    When I show you all of this and cite the SAME SOURCE you use for labor participation rate, you call them Obama talking points. Thus the partisanship from you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I'm sorry...advancements of civil rights? What advancements were these?
    Question asked....
    The only advancements in civil rights that i've seen is in the SSM area
    ...question answered.

    Only it wasn't just same sex marriage, it was gay rights in general. For example, DADT is no longer in effect.

    and those are due to court decisions....not legislative decisions.
    What does that have to do with anything (ignoring for a moment DADT was a legislative process)? You do understand the point, right? The point is to draw attention to all the advancements that have happened while the party was in power.

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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    The so called job growth is not keeping up with population growth or those retiring so there is no gain for the unemployed and the labor participation is still at a bad place

    From my link
    Your link contradicts your claim. If the number of people who gained employment is higher than the population growth, then that's more than keeping up with population growth. The Employment Population ratio (percent of the population working) has gone up over the last year. Not a lot...but a nice reversal.

    The Labor Force Participation is the percent of employed AND unemployed in the population. The labor force has gone up over the last year and while the number not in the labor force but wants a job has gone up some (+232,000) those who do not want a job has gone up a lot more (+1,679,000)

    In short....the reason the labor force participation rate is dropping is because fewer people want to work.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  3. #113
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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    It means more people than ever are not working

    Yes, it does mean more people than ever are not working. But, you are trying to sell that as a "bad thing" and its not.

    Why it "doesn't mean what you think it means" is because 95% of that number is comprised of retired persons drawing social security, stay at home moms, full-time college students and people collecting disability. (http://www.amosweb.com/cgi-bin/awb_n...he+labor+force)

    So, unless you think that Grandma needs to get off her duff and get a waitressing job.... I argue that, in general, a growth in people not in the workforce is evidence of a good economy (that people can afford to not have a job)...

    Now, in fairness to our good friends on the right, its no wonder they are confused..... many of them frequent political porn cites that feed them half truths just so they can get it up... you, know, their blood pressure. Take this article on CNS, the Conservative New Service, news filtered for Conservative "understanding"

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/95-m...ce-under-obama

    The primary point of the article is to tell us how the unemployment number is suspect because so many have left the labor force. There is only a superficial explanation of the NILF number (which they point out includes so-called discouraged workers)

    Contrast that with real news that actually attempts to explain the NILF number and why it is changing (without drawing full conclusions)

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...the-workforce/
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...bs-beckon.html

    So, there is a small portion of the NILF number that does connote economic weakness and a large portion (those that retire) that shows strength. The aggregate NILF number, however, is just a number.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 10-30-14 at 11:30 AM.

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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Only it wasn't just same sex marriage, it was gay rights in general. For example, DADT is no longer in effect.

    What does that have to do with anything (ignoring for a moment DADT was a legislative process)? You do understand the point, right? The point is to draw attention to all the advancements that have happened while the party was in power.
    I had forgotten about DADT. I'll give you that one. But claiming "victory" for a party for something that they had no involvement in making happen, SSM, is deceitful at best and is one of the many reasons why I hate the party system.

    I would however argue that while they do get DADT they also took away peoples rights. 1: By allowing the NSA to continue on with what they've been doing to the American People, violating their privacy rights. 2: By Obamacare's mandate which took away peoples right to choose to not buy a product from a private company. Those two combined outweigh any good that repealing of DADT did imo.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    And I have proven that assertion wrong by showing you more people are working now than they were in January 2009. Pinqy showed you the same thing. I also showed that assertion wrong as I linked you to the data which shows the number of discouraged workers has dropped in half. Finally, I already told you that so many of those who left the labor force did so because of retirement, not because they stopped looking.

    When I show you all of this and cite the SAME SOURCE you use for labor participation rate, you call them Obama talking points. Thus the partisanship from you.
    Question asked....
    ...question answered.

    Only it wasn't just same sex marriage, it was gay rights in general. For example, DADT is no longer in effect.

    What does that have to do with anything (ignoring for a moment DADT was a legislative process)? You do understand the point, right? The point is to draw attention to all the advancements that have happened while the party was in power.
    Stop the lies. People that stop looking did not retire they could not find work. Retirement is not included in labor participation that was breaking records and just came down

    You ignore my links that use BLS statistics. From the hot air link

    The “little” change in the seasonally-adjusted labor force particpation, a rounded 0.1 percentage point drop, means that the seasonally-adjusted participation rate for September is now lower than it was every month since February 1978, when it was also 62.7%. While there were 232,000 more people working in September than in August, more than the 217,000 increase in the civilian non-instutional population, there were 97,000 fewer people in the labor force.

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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Your link contradicts your claim. If the number of people who gained employment is higher than the population growth, then that's more than keeping up with population growth. The Employment Population ratio (percent of the population working) has gone up over the last year. Not a lot...but a nice reversal.

    The Labor Force Participation is the percent of employed AND unemployed in the population. The labor force has gone up over the last year and while the number not in the labor force but wants a job has gone up some (+232,000) those who do not want a job has gone up a lot more (+1,679,000)

    In short....the reason the labor force participation rate is dropping is because fewer people want to work.
    Not enough to matter since the labor participation rate is still close to 1978 levels

    The “little” change in the seasonally-adjusted labor force particpation, a rounded 0.1 percentage point drop, means that the seasonally-adjusted participation rate for September is now lower than it was every month since February 1978, when it was also 62.7%. While there were 232,000 more people working in September than in August, more than the 217,000 increase in the civilian non-instutional population, there were 97,000 fewer people in the labor force.

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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Yes, it does mean more people than ever are not working. But, you are trying to sell that as a "bad thing" and its not.

    Why it "doesn't mean what you think it means" is because 95% of that number is comprised of retired persons drawing social security, stay at home moms, full-time college students and people collecting disability. (AmosWEB is Economics: Encyclonomic WEB*pedia)

    So, unless you think that Grandma needs to get off her duff and get a waitressing job.... I argue that, in general, a growth in people not in the workforce is evidence of a good economy (that people can afford to not have a job)...

    Now, in fairness to our good friends on the right, its no wonder they are confused..... many of them frequent political porn cites that feed them half truths just so they can get it up... you, know, their blood pressure. Take this article on CNS, the Conservative New Service, news filtered for Conservative "understanding"

    9.5 Million People Have Left the Workforce Under Obama | CNS News

    The primary point of the article is to tell us how the unemployment number is suspect because so many have left the labor force. There is only a superficial explanation of the NILF number (which they point out includes so-called discouraged workers)

    Contrast that with real news that actually attempts to explain the NILF number and why it is changing (without drawing full conclusions)

    The biggest question facing the U.S. economy: Why are people dropping out of the workforce? - The Washington Post
    Workforce Participation at 36-Year Low as Jobs Climb - Bloomberg

    So, there is a small portion of the NILF number that does connote economic weakness and a large portion (those that retire) that shows strength. The aggregate NILF number, however, is just a number.
    The CNS link shows it is not about retired people it does not say what you claim. from that link

    9.5 million Americans have left the workforce during the presidency of Barack Obama, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

    In April, the total number of Americans counted as "not in the labor force" declined for the first time since December, but that number was still near a record high at 89,936,000.

    Those not in the labor force declined by 31,000, from a record high of 89,967,000 in March. That broke the recent record of 89,304,000 not in the labor force in February of this year.

    Since February 2009, the first full month of Obama’s presidency, 9,549,000 people have left the labor force. There were 80,387,000 Americans not working that month, compared with 89,936,000 not working or looking today, according to the latest economic release from BLS.
    Yor other 2 links try to dumb it down but fail.

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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Not enough to matter since the labor participation rate is still close to 1978 levels
    You keep repeating and repeating the participation rate. What do you think it measures and why do you consider it so important?

    [qutoe]The “little” change in the seasonally-adjusted labor force particpation, a rounded 0.1 percentage point drop, means that the seasonally-adjusted participation rate for September is now lower than it was every month since February 1978, when it was also 62.7%. [/quote]
    And higher than every month before Feb 1978. But we've known for decades that the participation rate would go down in the early 21st century. The recession made it worse, but it's no surprise.

    While there were 232,000 more people working in September than in August, more than the 217,000 increase in the civilian non-instutional population, there were 97,000 fewer people in the labor force.
    Yes...fewer people trying to find work. The number of people who did not want a job went up 270,000
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  9. #119
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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    You keep repeating and repeating the participation rate. What do you think it measures and why do you consider it so important?

    [qutoe]The “little” change in the seasonally-adjusted labor force particpation, a rounded 0.1 percentage point drop, means that the seasonally-adjusted participation rate for September is now lower than it was every month since February 1978, when it was also 62.7%.
    And higher than every month before Feb 1978. But we've known for decades that the participation rate would go down in the early 21st century. The recession made it worse, but it's no surprise.


    Yes...fewer people trying to find work. The number of people who did not want a job went up 270,000[/QUOTE]

    It shows the lies of the unemployment figures. During the last 6 years more people have stopped looking for work than got jobs. Unemployment has gone down because people stopped looking for work not because of jobs

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    Re: AP-GfK Poll: Most expect GOP victory in November

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    The CNS link shows it is not about retired people it does not say what you claim. from that link



    Yor other 2 links try to dumb it down but fail.
    Excuse me... you have missed the point entirely. I blasted the CNS link as withholding the whole story and only trying incite (which you are once again a victim of) and contrasted it to two stories that attempted to explain (unlike the CNS story) what was going on with the change in NILF number. The CNS story was dumbed down for Conservative consumption (facts that you can use to hammer Obama without any explanation of the facts)

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