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Turkey Would Oppose US Arms Transfers to Kurds

Ahlevah

Ahlevah

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Washington has said recently that it has engaged in intelligence sharing with Kurdish fighters and officials have not ruled out future arms transfers to the Kurdish fighters.

"The PYD is for us, equal to the PKK. It is a terror organization," (Turkish President Recep Tayyip) Erdogan told a group of reporters on his return from a visit to Afghanistan.

"It would be wrong for the United States — with whom we are friends and allies in NATO — to talk openly and to expect us to say 'yes' to such a support to a terrorist organization," Erdogan said. His comments were reported by the state-run Anadolu agency on Sunday.

Turkey Would Oppose US Arms Transfers to Kurds - ABC News
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To the folks who say that Turkey hasn't lifted a finger to help the Kurds in Northern Syria: Can you blame them? I can't. U.S. conservatives spent the better part of the last century articulating arguments against Marxist-Leninist-inspired liberation movements, and now they're chiding Turkey and Obama for not doing more to help these people. Ironic.
 
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Well, this is a disappointment--a real turkey. The pumpkin riot got a better response. :doh
 
Ahlevah said:
To the folks who say that Turkey hasn't lifted a finger to help the Kurds in Northern Syria: Can you blame them? I can't. U.S. conservatives spent the better part of the last century articulating arguments against Marxist-Leninist-inspired liberation movements, and now they're chiding Turkey and Obama for not doing more to help these people. Ironic.
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He is right

Any weapons given to the PYD will eventually be used against Turkey, either by ISIS, or by the Kurds depending on who wins in the fight between the Kurds and ISIS
 
Ahlevah said:
To the folks who say that Turkey hasn't lifted a finger to help the Kurds in Northern Syria: Can you blame them? I can't. U.S. conservatives spent the better part of the last century articulating arguments against Marxist-Leninist-inspired liberation movements, and now they're chiding Turkey and Obama for not doing more to help these people. Ironic.
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No, what's ironic is that Turkey, a NATO member that has bled the American taxpayer for billions of dollars, refuses to lift a finger to stop ISIS. In fact, it's worse than that. They have turned a blind eye while thousands of 'foreign fighters' have crossed the border from Turkey to join the bloodthirsty beheaders. We should be arming the Kurds and to hell with the perfidious Turks.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
He is right

Any weapons given to the PYD will eventually be used against Turkey, either by ISIS, or by the Kurds depending on who wins in the fight between the Kurds and ISIS
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Too bad for the Turks. They made their bed - now they can lie in it.
 
Sherman123 said:
The United States has begun dropping arms and supplies into Kobani bypassing the Turks.

BBC News - Kobane: US drops arms and aid to Kurds battling IS
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This is what I don't get. The Syrian Kurds we are supplying are members of a militia affiliated with a Marxist-Leninist organization in Turkey that the U.S. government, NATO, and the EU have designated a terrorist organization--the Kurdistan Worker's Party (Partiya Karkerên Kurdistan, or PKK). It's been a threat for more than three decades to a NATO ally, Turkey. This just goes to show the absurdity of our foreign policy sometimes.
 
You would know better than I--are there any Armenians left?
Looks like the Kurds are going going gone also .

Wiggen said:
Too bad for the Turks. They made their bed - now they can lie in it.
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NIMBY said:
You would know better than I--are there any Armenians left?
Looks like the Kurds are going going gone also .
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Unlike the Armenians, the Kurds have the means to fight back. The Turks have proven to be very good at genocide, not so good at actually fighting people who shoot back.
 
Wiggen said:
No, what's ironic is that Turkey, a NATO member that has bled the American taxpayer for billions of dollars, refuses to lift a finger to stop ISIS. In fact, it's worse than that. They have turned a blind eye while thousands of 'foreign fighters' have crossed the border from Turkey to join the bloodthirsty beheaders. We should be arming the Kurds and to hell with the perfidious Turks.
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From what I understand many of these foreign fighters who don't speak Arabic are being placed in suicide squads. So why would we want anyone to stop them? It seems to me the Turks are doing the Euros a favor by letting these idiots martyr themselves. If they don't blow themselves up they'll eventually find a bomb of ours. Either way they'll be dead and no longer a threat to anyone.
 
Ahlevah said:
This is what I don't get. The Syrian Kurds we are supplying are members of a militia affiliated with a Marxist-Leninist organization in Turkey that the U.S. government, NATO, and the EU have designated a terrorist organization--the Kurdistan Worker's Party (Partiya Karkerên Kurdistan, or PKK). It's been a threat for more than three decades to a NATO ally, Turkey. This just goes to show the absurdity of our foreign policy sometimes.
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Turkey is an ally in name only. They have done nothing for their billions in foreign aid other than frustrate the US every possible time they have the opportunity to do so. It's time we stopped all aid and removed our base from Incirlik. Since the Turks won't actually let us use it, it serves no purpose.
 
Ahlevah said:
From what I understand many of these foreign fighters who don't speak Arabic are being placed in suicide squads. So why would we want anyone to stop them? It seems to me the Turks are doing the Euros a favor by letting these idiots martyr themselves. If they don't blow themselves up they'll eventually find a bomb of ours. Either way they'll be dead and no longer a threat to anyone.
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the people the Turks are allowing into Iraq and Syria are not suicide bombers. They are fighters. Not that the Turks give a damn. There fervent wish is that ISIS wipes every Kurd from the face of the earth, and if they happen to take a few Americans with them, so be it. Given a choice between supporting the Kurds and supporting the ISIS/Turkey coalition, the choice isn't difficult. One group wants to behead everybody they consider an Infidel, and the other doesn't.
 
NIMBY said:
You would know better than I--are there any Armenians left?
Looks like the Kurds are going going gone also .
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You mean like in Armenia? Quite a few the country became independent after the fall of the ussr
 
Ahlevah said:
This is what I don't get. The Syrian Kurds we are supplying are members of a militia affiliated with a Marxist-Leninist organization in Turkey that the U.S. government, NATO, and the EU have designated a terrorist organization--the Kurdistan Worker's Party (Partiya Karkerên Kurdistan, or PKK). It's been a threat for more than three decades to a NATO ally, Turkey. This just goes to show the absurdity of our foreign policy sometimes.
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You don't get it because you're glossing over the most important part of the calculation. The PYD, and it's by no means clear that all of the fighters in Kobani are part of the PYD, aren't the PKK.

It has never carried out attacks against Turkey, it has never carried out terrorist attacks, it has consistently maintained a secular pro-Western position in the areas of Syria it controls. Is it the ideal Kurdish organization? No it isn't. But there has been a standing opportunity to lever the PYD even further from the PKK than it has already strayed by engaging them more directly, something that Turkey has adamantly rejected and blocked at every turn. Efforts to supplant them with Iraqi Kurdish or KNC fighters has failed because the PYD maintains the most effective military arm in combat against the Islamists in Syria. As a result the longer the war has dragged on the more the PYD has morphed into an umbrella organization for Syrian Kurds fighting against their enemies. If we want to help the Kurds in Syria we need to help the primary body that is organizing them to fight. So that's what we did.

Turkey will learn to live with this though I expect Erdogan will throw a tantrum as is his habit.
 
Ahlevah said:
From what I understand many of these foreign fighters who don't speak Arabic are being placed in suicide squads. So why would we want anyone to stop them? It seems to me the Turks are doing the Euros a favor by letting these idiots martyr themselves. If they don't blow themselves up they'll eventually find a bomb of ours. Either way they'll be dead and no longer a threat to anyone.
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Right after they blow up how many dozens of people they are fighting against?
What could be wrong with that ?
 
No--I meant in Turkey.
Biden sure gets in trouble when he opens his mouth on the truth doesn't he ?

Lord Tammerlain said:
You mean like in Armenia? Quite a few the country became independent after the fall of the ussr
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Sherman123 said:
You don't get it because you're glossing over the most important part of the calculation. The PYD, and it's by no means clear that all of the fighters in Kobani are part of the PYD, aren't the PKK.
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You can sugarcoat it any way you want, but the PYD is basically the PKK's arm in Syria. The Kurdistan Regional Government in Iraq supported the creation of the Kurdish National Council as a means to counter the influence of the PKK in Syria. And any claim that it is "by no means clear that all of the fighters in Kobani are part of the PYD" is disingenuous. The militia presence in Kobani is comprised largely of members of People's Protection Units--the military wing of the PYD.

https://www.understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/Backgrounder_SyrianKurds.pdf
 
Ahlevah said:
You can sugarcoat it any way you want, but the PYD is basically the PKK's arm in Syria. The Kurdistan Regional Government in Iraq supported the creation of the Kurdish National Council as a means to counter the influence of the PKK in Syria. And any claim that it is "by no means clear that all of the fighters in Kobani are of the PYD" is disingenuous. The militia presence in Kobani is comprised largely of members of People's Protection Units--the military wing of the PYD.

https://www.understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/Backgrounder_SyrianKurds.pdf
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Have you reviewed your own material? A few relevant excerpts:

"The nature of the relationship of the PYD to the PKK is disputed, in terms of the PYD’s function as a PKK front, a PKK proxy, or an ideological ally. Evidence suggests that the PYD coordinates closely with the PKK at the leadership level, but that pressure from its rank-and-file membership is pushing the PYD towards becoming its own distinctly Syrian Kurdish party, a process which will accelerate if PKK actions become more clearly counterproductive to the interests of Syrian Kurds."

"Yet it is unclear whether the PYD operates autonomously or at the behest of external entities. Evidence suggests that the PYD absorbs external influence only to a degree, and this degree of influence changes over time and as conditions shift."

My point was never that the PYD has no connection to the PKK. My point was that the PYD has increasingly become a distinct organization who's members are not fighting for the same objectives as the PKK. Moreover the report is nearly two years out of date and the trends highlighted in the report and that I mentioned have been accelerated.
 
NIMBY said:
Right after they blow up how many dozens of people they are fighting against?
What could be wrong with that ?
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If the targets are members of Assad's army, Hezbollah, Shiite militias, etc., well, nothing. My only regret is they can only blow themselves up once.
 
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This man Selman Ateş is so called manager of PKK terrrorist organisation for the city ''Hakkari'' in southeastern Turkey, He has ordered many attacks in Turkey, he was captured in a Turkish hospital; He was injured in the fight between the Is and pyd in Ayn Al-arab ,and brought in Turkey through the border control point which is still open for aid. the picture taken before entering Turkey has helped him captured in hospital.

He said he does not remember his past.


Another so called manager for the city Diyarbakır in southeastern Turkey was captured in the same way.

In Turkey There are tens of YPG ( armed force of PYD) members killed in Ayn al-Arab. They were brought in Turkey and burried, which is later understood that they are actually members of PKK terrorists or sympathizers in Turkey. Here is one of them:

680x365cc-srnk-18-08-2014-silopi-ypgli-malgaz-cenaze-karsilama7.jpg

In the pic A killed member of ypg/pkk terrorist organisation is carried, whose name is Ali Malgaz. You see the flag of the pkk terrorist organisation on the right, and you see the picture of prisoned leader of pkk terrorist organisation on a flag that is next to the car in yellow and also on the ambulance in front of the woman with headscarf.

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Supporting a terrorist organisation that is a threat to your ally for 3 decades is the worst move you can make in order to defeat another terrorist organisation.
 
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We can't turn our backs on the Kurds again. A compromise must be struck with Turkey.
 
The Kurds in Iraq and Syria are excellent fighters and they battle ISIS at every opportunity.

They are far more dependable than either Turkey or the "moderate" Arab militia's Washington keeps searching for.
 
It appears as though Turkey has begun to shift gears and is bowing to pressure from Europe and Washington to allow Kurdish reinforcements into Kobani. Though some are casting this as a case of Erdogan saying one thing for domestic and another for foreign consumption I'm skeptical. I think this is deeply frustrating for Erdogan and he's bowing to a fait accompli in the best way he can. I'm just surprised he hasn't reacted more petulantly.
 
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