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SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

Conservative said:
Except for the fact that liberals believe it should be the govt. doing that spending and not the taxpayers. In a consumer driven economy govt. spending is a small percentage, in the liberal world it is a greater percentage
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You have a point there.
And further, we don't send a lot of non liberals to Washington, do we?
 
Removable Mind said:
Last chance...put up or...??? And by the way, those numbers aren't proving causation or outcomes. That's just one set of elements among many which are used to look at the overall outcomes in the economy by the end of Reagan's presidency.
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No, you do the research, I gave you the link, I gave you the numbers, you choose not to do any research. You aren't worth the effort, just another liberal how drank the liberla bs as is typical of many in Austin. You make wild claims and when proven wrong by actual data you claim the numbers were spun, now you prove it or take your own advice. The link and directions stand.
 
This must be why Democrats fight Voter ID laws. Voter Fraud helps them win. An election system that allows this I have very little faith in. There is no way to know if a candidate actually won or if his win was due to cheating the system. There will always be a cloud over a candidate that wins a close race. One will never know what the outcome would have been if the election had been fair and just. But as long as fraud is possible and it benefits one party or the other, the party it benefits will do everything within its power to retain it while the other party will be hollering for fair elections.
Voter Fraud?
Former Georgian and Federal Election Commission member Hans von Spakovsky writes in the Wall Street Journal that voter fraud is an actual problem.

"Many states run a rickety election process, lacking rules to deter people who are looking to take advantage of the system's porous security," he writes.

"And too many groups and individuals - including the NAACP, the American Civil Liberties Union and U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder - are doing everything they can to prevent states from improving the integrity of the election process."

Von Spakovsky, co-author of "Obama's Enforcer: Eric Holder's Justice Department," points to recent instances in Pennsylvania, Mississippi, Connecticut and Tennessee where people have been charged with, or pleaded guilty to, voter fraud.

And in North Carolina, "more than 100 illegal aliens, still in the country thanks to the Obama administration's Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, registered to vote," he writes.

With tight races in many places across the country where elections are determined by a single vote or by breaking a tie, it's important to ferret out voter fraud, according to von Spakovsky, who notes 16 local races in Ohio that were decided by one vote or through a tie-breaker in 2014 and another 35 the year before.

"Voting by noncitizens alone could swing such races," he says.

"A new study by two Old Dominion University professors, based on survey data from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, found that 6.4 percent of all noncitizens voted illegally in the 2008 presidential election, and 2.2 percent voted in the 2010 midterms.

"Since 80 percent of noncitizens vote Democratic, according to the survey, the authors concluded that these illegal votes were 'large enough to plausibly account for Democratic victories in a few close elections.'

"Those that might have been skewed by noncitizen votes included Al Franken 's 312-vote win in the Minnesota race for the U.S. Senate. As a senator, Mr. Franken would cast the 60th vote needed to make Obamacare law."
 
Conservative said:
No, you do the research, I gave you the link, I gave you the numbers, you choose not to do any research. You aren't worth the effort, just another liberal how drank the liberla bs as is typical of many in Austin. You make wild claims and when proven wrong by actual data you claim the numbers were spun, now you prove it or take your own advice. The link and directions stand.
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I see...you offered me made up numbers, huh? Typical.
 
Dittohead not! said:
You have a point there.
And further, we don't send a lot of non liberals to Washington, do we?
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No because we have a tendency to want people to do things for us rather than do them ourselves. Politicians buy votes with their actions and that means spending money telling people it is for their own good and benefit. Liberalism has created a dependency that I am afraid will never be destroyed
 
Conservative said:
No because we have a tendency to want people to do things for us rather than do them ourselves. Politicians buy votes with their actions and that means spending money telling people it is for their own good and benefit. Liberalism has created a dependency that I am afraid will never be destroyed
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If that's what you're calling "liberalism" then you're right. Moreover, the way to get more power is to grow the government, which is what politicians like to do: Gain more power by making the government more powerful.
 
Perotista said:
This must be why Democrats fight Voter ID laws. Voter Fraud helps them win. An election system that allows this I have very little faith in. There is no way to know if a candidate actually won or if his win was due to cheating the system. There will always be a cloud over a candidate that wins a close race. One will never know what the outcome would have been if the election had been fair and just. But as long as fraud is possible and it benefits one party or the other, the party it benefits will do everything within its power to retain it while the other party will be hollering for fair elections.
Voter Fraud?
Former Georgian and Federal Election Commission member Hans von Spakovsky writes in the Wall Street Journal that voter fraud is an actual problem.

"Many states run a rickety election process, lacking rules to deter people who are looking to take advantage of the system's porous security," he writes.

"And too many groups and individuals - including the NAACP, the American Civil Liberties Union and U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder - are doing everything they can to prevent states from improving the integrity of the election process."

Von Spakovsky, co-author of "Obama's Enforcer: Eric Holder's Justice Department," points to recent instances in Pennsylvania, Mississippi, Connecticut and Tennessee where people have been charged with, or pleaded guilty to, voter fraud.

And in North Carolina, "more than 100 illegal aliens, still in the country thanks to the Obama administration's Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, registered to vote," he writes.

With tight races in many places across the country where elections are determined by a single vote or by breaking a tie, it's important to ferret out voter fraud, according to von Spakovsky, who notes 16 local races in Ohio that were decided by one vote or through a tie-breaker in 2014 and another 35 the year before.

"Voting by noncitizens alone could swing such races," he says.

"A new study by two Old Dominion University professors, based on survey data from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, found that 6.4 percent of all noncitizens voted illegally in the 2008 presidential election, and 2.2 percent voted in the 2010 midterms.

"Since 80 percent of noncitizens vote Democratic, according to the survey, the authors concluded that these illegal votes were 'large enough to plausibly account for Democratic victories in a few close elections.'

"Those that might have been skewed by noncitizen votes included Al Franken 's 312-vote win in the Minnesota race for the U.S. Senate. As a senator, Mr. Franken would cast the 60th vote needed to make Obamacare law."
Click to expand...

Thank you for getting us back on track. My apology for getting this thread off topic but economic policy is a very strong pet peeve of mine and I am a big proponent of any economic policy that puts more money in the hands of the people and any policy that promotes a smaller govt. TX has it right, part time legislature that has real jobs forcing legislators to live under the policies they create. Is there any wonder they want pure elections here?
 
Dittohead not! said:
If that's what you're calling "liberalism" then you're right. Moreover, the way to get more power is to grow the government, which is what politicians like to do: Gain more power by making the government more powerful.
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That is why there is so much fraud in the process as this is now a big money game and money means power. Getting the dead to vote, or buying votes is big business today. I love the voter ID law which has been in place in my District for a long time and no one complains. Might have something to do with the fact that it is very huge conservative county
 
Conservative said:
That is why there is so much fraud in the process as this is now a big money game and money means power. Getting the dead to vote, or buying votes is big business today. I love the voter ID law which has been in place in my District for a long time and no one complains. Might have something to do with the fact that it is very huge conservative county
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The biggest fraud of all is the practice of gerrymandering districts so that they include enough voters registered with the incumbent's party that it is all but impossible to unseat said incumbent.

I'm not sure just how many people actually vote that shouldn't be allowed to vote (dead, non citizens, etc.) but the perception that it is enough to swing elections says that a voter ID would be a good idea.

And, then, if we could somehow eliminate the need to raise millions of special interest money to run for office.... no, that's just pie in the sky, isn't it?
 
Dittohead not! said:
The biggest fraud of all is the practice of gerrymandering districts so that they include enough voters registered with the incumbent's party that it is all but impossible to unseat said incumbent.

I'm not sure just how many people actually vote that shouldn't be allowed to vote (dead, non citizens, etc.) but the perception that it is enough to swing elections says that a voter ID would be a good idea.

And, then, if we could somehow eliminate the need to raise millions of special interest money to run for office.... no, that's just pie in the sky, isn't it?
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I believe that gerrymandering is overstated and assumes that all voters are robots only voting for a specific party. I am a registered Republican but have voted for more Democrats than many Democrats have voted Republican. I vote for the individual and not the party regardless of what people in this forum think. I am a conservative and today there doesn't seem at the national level to be a Democrat with any conservative values.

Agree that in many cases perception is reality and putting a voter ID law in place would change perceptions.
 
Conservative said:
I believe that gerrymandering is overstated and assumes that all voters are robots only voting for a specific party. I am a registered Republican but have voted for more Democrats than many Democrats have voted Republican. I vote for the individual and not the party regardless of what people in this forum think. I am a conservative and today there doesn't seem at the national level to be a Democrat with any conservative values.

Agree that in many cases perception is reality and putting a voter ID law in place would change perceptions.
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Not all voters are partisan robots, of course, but enough of them are to make gerrymandering work.
 
Perotista said:
This must be why Democrats fight Voter ID laws. Voter Fraud helps them win.
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First of all, there is no evidence that "voter fraud" is a partisan issue. Second, I'm concerned about "voter fraud" but not the trivial amount of it that is impersonation at the polls. If you want to stop democrats from allegedly stealing elections, tighten up absentee ballots. That will have 100 times the actual impact of photo ID. Finally, photo ID rules help GOPers win by making it harder for poor, urban, mostly minorities to vote. Let's be adults and admit that obvious point.

An election system that allows this I have very little faith in. There is no way to know if a candidate actually won or if his win was due to cheating the system. There will always be a cloud over a candidate that wins a close race. One will never know what the outcome would have been if the election had been fair and just. But as long as fraud is possible and it benefits one party or the other, the party it benefits will do everything within its power to retain it while the other party will be hollering for fair elections.
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Sure, like maybe GOP officials slow walking or disappearing 50,000 voter registration forms? Initiating a bogus "fraud" investigation in the last few weeks of the registration period against a group that's registering likely democrats, alleging the investigation was prompted by flood of complaints, then finding out that there was ONE complaint filed?

If any of the so-called election integrity proponents spend even a minute on this type of thing, I might take the concerns seriously. But I just don't see it.

Voter Fraud?
Former Georgian and Federal Election Commission member Hans von Spakovsky writes in the Wall Street Journal that voter fraud is an actual problem.

"Many states run a rickety election process, lacking rules to deter people who are looking to take advantage of the system's porous security," he writes.

"And too many groups and individuals - including the NAACP, the American Civil Liberties Union and U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder - are doing everything they can to prevent states from improving the integrity of the election process."

Von Spakovsky, co-author of "Obama's Enforcer: Eric Holder's Justice Department," points to recent instances in Pennsylvania, Mississippi, Connecticut and Tennessee where people have been charged with, or pleaded guilty to, voter fraud.

And in North Carolina, "more than 100 illegal aliens, still in the country thanks to the Obama administration's Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, registered to vote," he writes.

With tight races in many places across the country where elections are determined by a single vote or by breaking a tie, it's important to ferret out voter fraud, according to von Spakovsky, who notes 16 local races in Ohio that were decided by one vote or through a tie-breaker in 2014 and another 35 the year before.

"Voting by noncitizens alone could swing such races," he says.

"A new study by two Old Dominion University professors, based on survey data from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, found that 6.4 percent of all noncitizens voted illegally in the 2008 presidential election, and 2.2 percent voted in the 2010 midterms.

"Since 80 percent of noncitizens vote Democratic, according to the survey, the authors concluded that these illegal votes were 'large enough to plausibly account for Democratic victories in a few close elections.'

"Those that might have been skewed by noncitizen votes included Al Franken 's 312-vote win in the Minnesota race for the U.S. Senate. As a senator, Mr. Franken would cast the 60th vote needed to make Obamacare law."
Click to expand...

As all articles in this genre of propaganda do, the authors conflate all election fraud into 'voter fraud.' The Tennessee incident was vote BUYING - nothing to do with Photo ID. The case in Mississippi - absentee ballots. The survey, which was a very small population, concludes that some fraud occurs but those "illegals" voting were registered, illegals or non-citizens are eligible for photo ID, and at least 75% of those non-citizens who reported voting also reported that they were asked for and provided photo ID and voted.

I'll quit with this question. Is it an improvement on election integrity if 1,000 eligible citizens are unable to cast a vote because they lack ID, to stop ________________ (pick a number between 1 and infinity) of ineligible persons from casting a vote.

In other words, is a rule change beneficial to the integrity of elections if the rules prevent ONE person from casting an INeligible ballot, but prevent 1,000 eligible and registered citizens from casting their vote? If not ONE, then how many? 100? 500? What's an acceptable cost/benefit ratio?

The question was motivated by this article. Lowry points to a GAO study that indicates 'only' 1,000 votes in one election in Kansas and Tennessee were not counted because of problems with photo ID. Well, that's about 800-900 more registered voters prevented from voting than all the documented cases of impersonation fraud in the U.S. in all elections over 50 states in a decade. A good trade or not?
 
Conservative said:
Thank you for getting us back on track. My apology for getting this thread off topic but economic policy is a very strong pet peeve of mine and I am a big proponent of any economic policy that puts more money in the hands of the people and any policy that promotes a smaller govt. TX has it right, part time legislature that has real jobs forcing legislators to live under the policies they create. Is there any wonder they want pure elections here?
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Now you hit on a pet peeve of mine. Congress 95% of the time or more exempting themselves from the laws they pass and expect everyone else to live under. Our government is the, "Do as I say, not as I do," type of government. The elite in Washington knows best, but the elite in Washington do not have to abide by their own rules and laws. Now you got me doing this pet peeve thing. Dang you!
 
Conservative said:
That is why there is so much fraud in the process as this is now a big money game and money means power. Getting the dead to vote, or buying votes is big business today. I love the voter ID law which has been in place in my District for a long time and no one complains. Might have something to do with the fact that it is very huge conservative county
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The dead don't vote. If it was ever a problem, it ended with the computer era, where you can match voters, which we have a record of, with dead people who we also track.
 
JasperL said:
Yeah, we know gerrymandering works because politicians spend immense resources dedicated to making it work.
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Gerrmandering has been going on for decades, were you this upset when it worked to the Democrat advantage?? Gerrymandering is just another way of saying that people are robots and vote for the party vs the individual. Some may do but IMO most do not. You definitely have a left wing bias and the question is why? Name for me any liberal social program that cost what it was supposed to cost, do what it was supposed to do, solved a problem, and went away? Just one!!
 
JasperL said:
The dead don't vote. If it was ever a problem, it ended with the computer era, where you can match voters, which we have a record of, with dead people who we also track.
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No, they don't but you could never prove that in Chicago or NYC. It is however amazing how many dead people actually rose from the dead to vote for Democrats

http://nypost.com/2013/12/30/the-dead-can-vote-in-nyc/

http://www.citypaper.net/articles/101295/article009.shtml

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/28/obama-jokes-about-chicago-vote-fraud/
 
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JasperL said:
First of all, there is no evidence that "voter fraud" is a partisan issue. Second, I'm concerned about "voter fraud" but not the trivial amount of it that is impersonation at the polls. If you want to stop democrats from allegedly stealing elections, tighten up absentee ballots. That will have 100 times the actual impact of photo ID. Finally, photo ID rules help GOPers win by making it harder for poor, urban, mostly minorities to vote. Let's be adults and admit that obvious point.



Sure, like maybe GOP officials slow walking or disappearing 50,000 voter registration forms? Initiating a bogus "fraud" investigation in the last few weeks of the registration period against a group that's registering likely democrats, alleging the investigation was prompted by flood of complaints, then finding out that there was ONE complaint filed?

If any of the so-called election integrity proponents spend even a minute on this type of thing, I might take the concerns seriously. But I just don't see it.



As all articles in this genre of propaganda do, the authors conflate all election fraud into 'voter fraud.' The Tennessee incident was vote BUYING - nothing to do with Photo ID. The case in Mississippi - absentee ballots. The survey, which was a very small population, concludes that some fraud occurs but those "illegals" voting were registered, illegals or non-citizens are eligible for photo ID, and at least 75% of those non-citizens who reported voting also reported that they were asked for and provided photo ID and voted.

I'll quit with this question. Is it an improvement on election integrity if 1,000 eligible citizens are unable to cast a vote because they lack ID, to stop ________________ (pick a number between 1 and infinity) of ineligible persons from casting a vote.

In other words, is a rule change beneficial to the integrity of elections if the rules prevent ONE person from casting an INeligible ballot, but prevent 1,000 eligible and registered citizens from casting their vote? If not ONE, then how many? 100? 500? What's an acceptable cost/benefit ratio?

The question was motivated by this article. Lowry points to a GAO study that indicates 'only' 1,000 votes in one election in Kansas and Tennessee were not counted because of problems with photo ID. Well, that's about 800-900 more registered voters prevented from voting than all the documented cases of impersonation fraud in the U.S. in all elections over 50 states in a decade. A good trade or not?
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Get away from voter ID, that is a red herring. The real fraud starts with registration as I have been harping on for a very long time. All voter ID does is to make sure you are who you say you are. If you are an illegal, a felon who whomever already registered.

Georgia is slow this year because one of the organizations sent out to get people registered, an organization that was paid by the registration, a random check of the signatures revealed they registered 2 14 year old girls, 7 felons and 3 illegals or non-citizens. Those findings caused the whole list of signatures to have to be checked.

Probably the only way to solve fraud or illegal registration is to have each person who wants to vote go to the county registration office in person with the required paper work. Until registration rolls are check and verified to be honest and correct, any amount of voter ID at the polls is like peeing in the wind.
 
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Conservative said:
Gerrmandering has been going on for decades, were you this upset when it worked to the Democrat advantage?? Gerrymandering is just another way of saying that people are robots and vote for the party vs the individual. Some may do but IMO most do not. You definitely have a left wing bias and the question is why? Name for me any liberal social program that cost what it was supposed to cost, do what it was supposed to do, solved a problem, and went away? Just one!!
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You're imagining positions I don't hold. Read my words carefully. Not one word was partisan. When democrats control the process, they arrange districts to protect democrats, as do republicans. It's as old as politics.

And I'd say the more accurate description of the electorate, which is well known by experts and consultants in drawing districts, is most of us vote predictably, and some of us do not. In my town we just ousted the best judge in the area, for an idiot who was such an incompetent the GOP establishment (who didn't have any interest in running anyone against the current Chancellor) came out for the incumbent democrat. But the GOPer won because he got on the ballot with an R by his name. Didn't raise any money or spend any on ads, signs, etc. There is likely literally NO ONE who voted for that idiot based on his qualification - he was a failed attorney - but he won a majority of my red district. And I mention the party ONLY because that's how it is in my district. I'm quite sure one could find 1,000 examples of D's getting elected based on nothing but the D by their name.
 
Perotista said:
Get away from voter ID, that is a red herring. The real fraud starts with registration as I have been harping on for a very long time. All voter ID does is to make sure you are who you say you are. If you are an illegal, a felon who whomever already registered.
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How can we "get away" from photo ID - those are the new rules being passed in red states?

Georgia is slow this year because one of the organizations sent out to get people registered, an organization that was paid by the registration, a random check of the signatures revealed they registered 2 14 year old girls, 7 felons and 3 illegals or non-citizens. Those findings caused the whole list of signatures to have to be checked.
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You're kind of making my point by ignoring the issue here. From what I've read, those registrations were out of roughly 85,000, and groups doing voter registrations must turn in every registration, even those they suspect might be bogus. If Mickey Mouse signs a form and hands it in, the registration groups have no choice but to turn that form in with all the others. If a person on the street comes up, and is a felon, but signs the forms, they have no legal obligation to check his or her status as a felon, but even if they watched him come out of the prison, they cannot trash or refuse his form, and must turn it in. Same with illegals. Same with 14 year old girls who might do it for fun - they have to turn in the forms.

So you're pointing out problems that are inevitable, even if the group was extraordinarily diligent, as they appear to have been, given the small number of problems found, and the fact that they worked with the Sec. of State office from beginning to end to make sure they did it according to the laws of Georgia.

Probably the only way to solve fraud or illegal registration is to have each person who wants to vote go to the county registration office in person with the required paper work. Until registration rolls are check and verified to be honest and correct, any amount of voter ID at the polls is like peeing in the wind.
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Not sure how that helps. The clerk accepting your form isn't an investigator - the form has to be processed and verified same as those turned in by outside groups.
 
Perotista said:
This must be why Democrats fight Voter ID laws. Voter Fraud helps them win. An election system that allows this I have very little faith in. There is no way to know if a candidate actually won or if his win was due to cheating the system. There will always be a cloud over a candidate that wins a close race. One will never know what the outcome would have been if the election had been fair and just. But as long as fraud is possible and it benefits one party or the other, the party it benefits will do everything within its power to retain it while the other party will be hollering for fair elections.
Voter Fraud?
Former Georgian and Federal Election Commission member Hans von Spakovsky writes in the Wall Street Journal that voter fraud is an actual problem.

"Many states run a rickety election process, lacking rules to deter people who are looking to take advantage of the system's porous security," he writes.

"And too many groups and individuals - including the NAACP, the American Civil Liberties Union and U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder - are doing everything they can to prevent states from improving the integrity of the election process."

Von Spakovsky, co-author of "Obama's Enforcer: Eric Holder's Justice Department," points to recent instances in Pennsylvania, Mississippi, Connecticut and Tennessee where people have been charged with, or pleaded guilty to, voter fraud.

And in North Carolina, "more than 100 illegal aliens, still in the country thanks to the Obama administration's Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, registered to vote," he writes.

With tight races in many places across the country where elections are determined by a single vote or by breaking a tie, it's important to ferret out voter fraud, according to von Spakovsky, who notes 16 local races in Ohio that were decided by one vote or through a tie-breaker in 2014 and another 35 the year before.

"Voting by noncitizens alone could swing such races," he says.

"A new study by two Old Dominion University professors, based on survey data from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, found that 6.4 percent of all noncitizens voted illegally in the 2008 presidential election, and 2.2 percent voted in the 2010 midterms.

"Since 80 percent of noncitizens vote Democratic, according to the survey, the authors concluded that these illegal votes were 'large enough to plausibly account for Democratic victories in a few close elections.'

"Those that might have been skewed by noncitizen votes included Al Franken 's 312-vote win in the Minnesota race for the U.S. Senate. As a senator, Mr. Franken would cast the 60th vote needed to make Obamacare law."
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Bravo Ms. P... so good it needed a bump.
 
JasperL said:
How can we "get away" from photo ID - those are the new rules being passed in red states?



You're kind of making my point by ignoring the issue here. From what I've read, those registrations were out of roughly 85,000, and groups doing voter registrations must turn in every registration, even those they suspect might be bogus. If Mickey Mouse signs a form and hands it in, the registration groups have no choice but to turn that form in with all the others. If a person on the street comes up, and is a felon, but signs the forms, they have no legal obligation to check his or her status as a felon, but even if they watched him come out of the prison, they cannot trash or refuse his form, and must turn it in. Same with illegals. Same with 14 year old girls who might do it for fun - they have to turn in the forms.

So you're pointing out problems that are inevitable, even if the group was extraordinarily diligent, as they appear to have been, given the small number of problems found, and the fact that they worked with the Sec. of State office from beginning to end to make sure they did it according to the laws of Georgia.



Not sure how that helps. The clerk accepting your form isn't an investigator - the form has to be processed and verified same as those turned in by outside groups.
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If a person if required to show proof of citizenship, residence, and who they are to the register at the time they are registering that should solve the problem. You wouldn't have to worry about people going door to door, throwing registrations away or anything else dealing with the different organizations that register people. All of that would be taken care at the county voter registration office.

If the article was correct that 6% of non-citizens voted, then my question is how many non-citizens do we have in this country? I know it is estimated that there are between 13-20 million Illegal aliens in this country. Just that figure alone tells me this is a major problem.

Now as to voter ID, I always thought that it was kind of like closing the barn door after all the horses left the barn. I have no problem with it, but I do not think it helps to stop the fraud the article talked about.
 
Perotista said:
If a person if required to show proof of citizenship, residence, and who they are to the register at the time they are registering that should solve the problem. You wouldn't have to worry about people going door to door, throwing registrations away or anything else dealing with the different organizations that register people. All of that would be taken care at the county voter registration office.
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I guess what bothers me more in Georgia is a group legally, and in constant contact with the Ga Sec. of State, went around and got 85,000 citizens of Georgia to register. These people all believe they've done what's necessary to vote in a few days. But for some reason, as of last writing, 50,000 of those registrations haven't been processed. And no one worried about election integrity seems to care. That's 50,000 people unable to vote, potentially, and a yawn, but right wingers can't do too much to solve the problem of a handful of impersonation fraud cases. Something seems off, and it looks to me like the problem might be the 50,000 registrations were gathered by a liberal leaning group targeting poor people and minorities...

And, sure, we could reform the registration process - I'd prefer a national system, constantly updated, that automatically registers every citizen when they turn 18 and then uses IRS or USPS or other data to reassign them to the correct voting district when they move. It's the dumbest election system anyone could imagine. But that's not really the point - we have what we have.

If the article was correct that 6% of non-citizens voted, then my question is how many non-citizens do we have in this country? I know it is estimated that there are between 13-20 million Illegal aliens in this country. Just that figure alone tells me this is a major problem.
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6% of 13 million is 780,000 illegal voters, and yet we've had GOP officials in many states and U.S. Attorneys under Bush desperately trying to find any evidence that voting by illegals is a big problem and they've failed. There have been almost no prosecutions of this kind of illegal activity. So you'll have to understand why I find those numbers impossible to believe. And if they're true, the "solution" to this problem that's been implemented - Photo ID - will only stop around 25% of this fraud.

Now as to voter ID, I always thought that it was kind of like closing the barn door after all the horses left the barn. I have no problem with it, but I do not think it helps to stop the fraud the article talked about.
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I just don't see any evidence that there is a big problem with registered voters. There really IS a big incentive for republicans to find and remove illegals from the rolls of registered voters. I guess I can't think of a reason why people with massive incentives to do so have failed every time, except that there aren't many 'illegals' registered to vote.
 
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