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Thread: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    No because we have a tendency to want people to do things for us rather than do them ourselves. Politicians buy votes with their actions and that means spending money telling people it is for their own good and benefit. Liberalism has created a dependency that I am afraid will never be destroyed
    If that's what you're calling "liberalism" then you're right. Moreover, the way to get more power is to grow the government, which is what politicians like to do: Gain more power by making the government more powerful.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    This must be why Democrats fight Voter ID laws. Voter Fraud helps them win. An election system that allows this I have very little faith in. There is no way to know if a candidate actually won or if his win was due to cheating the system. There will always be a cloud over a candidate that wins a close race. One will never know what the outcome would have been if the election had been fair and just. But as long as fraud is possible and it benefits one party or the other, the party it benefits will do everything within its power to retain it while the other party will be hollering for fair elections.
    Voter Fraud?
    Former Georgian and Federal Election Commission member Hans von Spakovsky writes in the Wall Street Journal that voter fraud is an actual problem.

    "Many states run a rickety election process, lacking rules to deter people who are looking to take advantage of the system's porous security," he writes.

    "And too many groups and individuals - including the NAACP, the American Civil Liberties Union and U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder - are doing everything they can to prevent states from improving the integrity of the election process."

    Von Spakovsky, co-author of "Obama's Enforcer: Eric Holder's Justice Department," points to recent instances in Pennsylvania, Mississippi, Connecticut and Tennessee where people have been charged with, or pleaded guilty to, voter fraud.

    And in North Carolina, "more than 100 illegal aliens, still in the country thanks to the Obama administration's Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, registered to vote," he writes.

    With tight races in many places across the country where elections are determined by a single vote or by breaking a tie, it's important to ferret out voter fraud, according to von Spakovsky, who notes 16 local races in Ohio that were decided by one vote or through a tie-breaker in 2014 and another 35 the year before.

    "Voting by noncitizens alone could swing such races," he says.

    "A new study by two Old Dominion University professors, based on survey data from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, found that 6.4 percent of all noncitizens voted illegally in the 2008 presidential election, and 2.2 percent voted in the 2010 midterms.

    "Since 80 percent of noncitizens vote Democratic, according to the survey, the authors concluded that these illegal votes were 'large enough to plausibly account for Democratic victories in a few close elections.'

    "Those that might have been skewed by noncitizen votes included Al Franken 's 312-vote win in the Minnesota race for the U.S. Senate. As a senator, Mr. Franken would cast the 60th vote needed to make Obamacare law."
    Thank you for getting us back on track. My apology for getting this thread off topic but economic policy is a very strong pet peeve of mine and I am a big proponent of any economic policy that puts more money in the hands of the people and any policy that promotes a smaller govt. TX has it right, part time legislature that has real jobs forcing legislators to live under the policies they create. Is there any wonder they want pure elections here?

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    If that's what you're calling "liberalism" then you're right. Moreover, the way to get more power is to grow the government, which is what politicians like to do: Gain more power by making the government more powerful.
    That is why there is so much fraud in the process as this is now a big money game and money means power. Getting the dead to vote, or buying votes is big business today. I love the voter ID law which has been in place in my District for a long time and no one complains. Might have something to do with the fact that it is very huge conservative county

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    That is why there is so much fraud in the process as this is now a big money game and money means power. Getting the dead to vote, or buying votes is big business today. I love the voter ID law which has been in place in my District for a long time and no one complains. Might have something to do with the fact that it is very huge conservative county
    The biggest fraud of all is the practice of gerrymandering districts so that they include enough voters registered with the incumbent's party that it is all but impossible to unseat said incumbent.

    I'm not sure just how many people actually vote that shouldn't be allowed to vote (dead, non citizens, etc.) but the perception that it is enough to swing elections says that a voter ID would be a good idea.

    And, then, if we could somehow eliminate the need to raise millions of special interest money to run for office.... no, that's just pie in the sky, isn't it?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The biggest fraud of all is the practice of gerrymandering districts so that they include enough voters registered with the incumbent's party that it is all but impossible to unseat said incumbent.

    I'm not sure just how many people actually vote that shouldn't be allowed to vote (dead, non citizens, etc.) but the perception that it is enough to swing elections says that a voter ID would be a good idea.

    And, then, if we could somehow eliminate the need to raise millions of special interest money to run for office.... no, that's just pie in the sky, isn't it?
    I believe that gerrymandering is overstated and assumes that all voters are robots only voting for a specific party. I am a registered Republican but have voted for more Democrats than many Democrats have voted Republican. I vote for the individual and not the party regardless of what people in this forum think. I am a conservative and today there doesn't seem at the national level to be a Democrat with any conservative values.

    Agree that in many cases perception is reality and putting a voter ID law in place would change perceptions.

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I believe that gerrymandering is overstated and assumes that all voters are robots only voting for a specific party. I am a registered Republican but have voted for more Democrats than many Democrats have voted Republican. I vote for the individual and not the party regardless of what people in this forum think. I am a conservative and today there doesn't seem at the national level to be a Democrat with any conservative values.

    Agree that in many cases perception is reality and putting a voter ID law in place would change perceptions.
    Not all voters are partisan robots, of course, but enough of them are to make gerrymandering work.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Not all voters are partisan robots, of course, but enough of them are to make gerrymandering work.
    Maybe but don't know for sure. You could be right.

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    This must be why Democrats fight Voter ID laws. Voter Fraud helps them win.
    First of all, there is no evidence that "voter fraud" is a partisan issue. Second, I'm concerned about "voter fraud" but not the trivial amount of it that is impersonation at the polls. If you want to stop democrats from allegedly stealing elections, tighten up absentee ballots. That will have 100 times the actual impact of photo ID. Finally, photo ID rules help GOPers win by making it harder for poor, urban, mostly minorities to vote. Let's be adults and admit that obvious point.

    An election system that allows this I have very little faith in. There is no way to know if a candidate actually won or if his win was due to cheating the system. There will always be a cloud over a candidate that wins a close race. One will never know what the outcome would have been if the election had been fair and just. But as long as fraud is possible and it benefits one party or the other, the party it benefits will do everything within its power to retain it while the other party will be hollering for fair elections.
    Sure, like maybe GOP officials slow walking or disappearing 50,000 voter registration forms? Initiating a bogus "fraud" investigation in the last few weeks of the registration period against a group that's registering likely democrats, alleging the investigation was prompted by flood of complaints, then finding out that there was ONE complaint filed?

    If any of the so-called election integrity proponents spend even a minute on this type of thing, I might take the concerns seriously. But I just don't see it.

    Voter Fraud?
    Former Georgian and Federal Election Commission member Hans von Spakovsky writes in the Wall Street Journal that voter fraud is an actual problem.

    "Many states run a rickety election process, lacking rules to deter people who are looking to take advantage of the system's porous security," he writes.

    "And too many groups and individuals - including the NAACP, the American Civil Liberties Union and U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder - are doing everything they can to prevent states from improving the integrity of the election process."

    Von Spakovsky, co-author of "Obama's Enforcer: Eric Holder's Justice Department," points to recent instances in Pennsylvania, Mississippi, Connecticut and Tennessee where people have been charged with, or pleaded guilty to, voter fraud.

    And in North Carolina, "more than 100 illegal aliens, still in the country thanks to the Obama administration's Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, registered to vote," he writes.

    With tight races in many places across the country where elections are determined by a single vote or by breaking a tie, it's important to ferret out voter fraud, according to von Spakovsky, who notes 16 local races in Ohio that were decided by one vote or through a tie-breaker in 2014 and another 35 the year before.

    "Voting by noncitizens alone could swing such races," he says.

    "A new study by two Old Dominion University professors, based on survey data from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, found that 6.4 percent of all noncitizens voted illegally in the 2008 presidential election, and 2.2 percent voted in the 2010 midterms.

    "Since 80 percent of noncitizens vote Democratic, according to the survey, the authors concluded that these illegal votes were 'large enough to plausibly account for Democratic victories in a few close elections.'

    "Those that might have been skewed by noncitizen votes included Al Franken 's 312-vote win in the Minnesota race for the U.S. Senate. As a senator, Mr. Franken would cast the 60th vote needed to make Obamacare law."
    As all articles in this genre of propaganda do, the authors conflate all election fraud into 'voter fraud.' The Tennessee incident was vote BUYING - nothing to do with Photo ID. The case in Mississippi - absentee ballots. The survey, which was a very small population, concludes that some fraud occurs but those "illegals" voting were registered, illegals or non-citizens are eligible for photo ID, and at least 75% of those non-citizens who reported voting also reported that they were asked for and provided photo ID and voted.

    I'll quit with this question. Is it an improvement on election integrity if 1,000 eligible citizens are unable to cast a vote because they lack ID, to stop ________________ (pick a number between 1 and infinity) of ineligible persons from casting a vote.

    In other words, is a rule change beneficial to the integrity of elections if the rules prevent ONE person from casting an INeligible ballot, but prevent 1,000 eligible and registered citizens from casting their vote? If not ONE, then how many? 100? 500? What's an acceptable cost/benefit ratio?

    The question was motivated by this article. Lowry points to a GAO study that indicates 'only' 1,000 votes in one election in Kansas and Tennessee were not counted because of problems with photo ID. Well, that's about 800-900 more registered voters prevented from voting than all the documented cases of impersonation fraud in the U.S. in all elections over 50 states in a decade. A good trade or not?

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Thank you for getting us back on track. My apology for getting this thread off topic but economic policy is a very strong pet peeve of mine and I am a big proponent of any economic policy that puts more money in the hands of the people and any policy that promotes a smaller govt. TX has it right, part time legislature that has real jobs forcing legislators to live under the policies they create. Is there any wonder they want pure elections here?
    Now you hit on a pet peeve of mine. Congress 95% of the time or more exempting themselves from the laws they pass and expect everyone else to live under. Our government is the, "Do as I say, not as I do," type of government. The elite in Washington knows best, but the elite in Washington do not have to abide by their own rules and laws. Now you got me doing this pet peeve thing. Dang you!
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Maybe but don't know for sure. You could be right.
    Yeah, we know gerrymandering works because politicians spend immense resources dedicated to making it work.

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