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Thread: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    What you buy is there is a free lunch on taxes, tax cuts pay for themselves, and if us liberals want to spend more money, we can pay for that additional spending with tax CUTS on the wealthy. I don't buy that because it is a fairy tale and I quit believing in fairy tales sometime around age 4.
    What you buy is the government needs the money more than the American people. You cannot pay for the liberal spending appetite by taxing the rich and you ought to know that. Pluse the fact that you don't seem to have any concept as to what the rich do with their money and why it is the govt. that needs it more?

    I believe in the facts, Reagan cut taxes three years in a row and generated 17 million jobs. Tax cuts put more money into the hands of the consumer and that stimulates and grows the economy. It is wrong to punish people for what they earn regardless of class. You buy the need for a 3.9 trillion dollar Federal Govt?

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What you buy is the government needs the money more than the American people. You cannot pay for the liberal spending appetite by taxing the rich and you ought to know that. Pluse the fact that you don't seem to have any concept as to what the rich do with their money and why it is the govt. that needs it more?
    I recognize that taxes are required to fund government. We disagree on the appropriate level of spending, and that conflict and tension between liberals and conservatives is a good thing.

    I believe in the facts, Reagan cut taxes three years in a row and generated 17 million jobs. Tax cuts put more money into the hands of the consumer and that stimulates and grows the economy. It is wrong to punish people for what they earn regardless of class. You buy the need for a 3.9 trillion dollar Federal Govt?
    You should probably avoid directly following, "I believe in facts" with something that isn't true.

    ERTA '81 was a very large tax cut. For the 4 years following, it averaged $143 billion per year tax cut.
    TEFRA 82 was a large tax INCREASE of $38 billion per year for the first 4 years.
    The tax changes in 83, 84, 85 and 87 were also net tax INCREASES. TRA 86 was essentially revenue neutral.

    http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...ents/ota81.pdf

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Obviously the question was do spending increases get paid for with more tax cuts?

    Or, is there a Tax Santa Clause?
    The answer depends on the level of taxation we're talking about. My view is summed up by another poster in #328.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I recognize that taxes are required to fund government. We disagree on the appropriate level of spending, and that conflict and tension between liberals and conservatives is a good thing.



    You should probably avoid directly following, "I believe in facts" with something that isn't true.

    ERTA '81 was a very large tax cut. For the 4 years following, it averaged $143 billion per year tax cut.
    TEFRA 82 was a large tax INCREASE of $38 billion per year for the first 4 years.
    The tax changes in 83, 84, 85 and 87 were also net tax INCREASES. TRA 86 was essentially revenue neutral.

    http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...ents/ota81.pdf

    As someone who claims to understand taxes you show no such tendency here. Do you know what a use tax is and how it compares to FIT? FICA funds SS and Medicare and is a use tax. It comes back to the taxpayers, Income taxes fund the Federal Govt. or at least should and yes we have a problem with you understanding the role of the Federal Govt. Our Founders created a limited central govt. and part time legislature. Compare that to what we have today?

    Do you understand that all people don't pay into SS and Medicare? Do you understand that use taxes are only paid for by the people who use the services? Sounds like we need massive education reform to help people like you understand the differences between the taxes and what they fund

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    As someone who claims to understand taxes you show no such tendency here. Do you know what a use tax is and how it compares to FIT? FICA funds SS and Medicare and is a use tax. It comes back to the taxpayers, Income taxes fund the Federal Govt. or at least should and yes we have a problem with you understanding the role of the Federal Govt. Our Founders created a limited central govt. and part time legislature. Compare that to what we have today?

    Do you understand that all people don't pay into SS and Medicare? Do you understand that use taxes are only paid for by the people who use the services? Sounds like we need massive education reform to help people like you understand the differences between the taxes and what they fund
    I can promise you I understand how SS and Medicare is funded, etc. Tax people wouldn't call the payroll taxes that fund those things 'use' taxes - that term is normally used in the sales and use tax context - e.g. if you buy an item online and the seller doesn't collect sales tax on the purchase, you'll normally owe a USE tax on that item equal to the sales tax if bought from an instate seller.

    I'm not sure what that has to do with Reagan passing a large tax cut in 81 then a series of tax increases every year from 82-87 (TRA 86 was a small tax increase), with the tax increase in 82 a very large one.

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The answer depends on the level of taxation we're talking about. My view is summed up by another poster in #328.
    Ok, and he said, paraphrased, "It depends."

    So, let's take two recent changes.

    1) Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003? Did one, both, neither pay for themselves?

    2) The recent tax increase in the top rate to 39.6% from 35%. Will that increase or decrease tax revenues?

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Ok, and he said, paraphrased, "It depends."

    So, let's take two recent changes.

    1) Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003? Did one, both, neither pay for themselves?

    2) The recent tax increase in the top rate to 39.6% from 35%. Will that increase or decrease tax revenues?
    Onset of war makes #1 impossible to answer. Fiscal environment was fundamentally altered.

    Recent tax increase (#2) increases revenues.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    JasperL;1063911085]I can promise you I understand how SS and Medicare is funded, etc. Tax people wouldn't call the payroll taxes that fund those things 'use' taxes - that term is normally used in the sales and use tax context - e.g. if you buy an item online and the seller doesn't collect sales tax on the purchase, you'll normally owe a USE tax on that item equal to the sales tax if bought from an instate seller.
    Again, you miss the point, SS and Medicare are items used by people. they are forced contributions put into a retirement supplement that are then paid out to those when they reach retirement age. They are indeed use taxes. Your perception is just that. Not all people pay into SS and Medicare thus weren't subject to the FICA increases therefore had no tax increase. LBJ put SS on budget to fund the Vietnam War and it stayed there. People like you are now conditioned to believe it is part of the federal budget. Every year money comes in and goes out, if there are fewer people retiring then there will be a current year surplus but that surplus actually belongs to someone else. You really need to learn how SS works and what your taxes fund. Just because more money comes in than goes out in SS doesn't mean the govt. has to spend it but they do, on everything other than SS

    Federal Income taxes on the other hand are paid by everyone who earns income. Those were the taxes cut and those were the taxes that stimulated and helped grow the economy. You are simply wrong on this issue and cannot admit it.

    I'm not sure what that has to do with Reagan passing a large tax cut in 81 then a series of tax increases every year from 82-87 (TRA 86 was a small tax increase), with the tax increase in 82 a very large one.[/QUOTE]

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Ok, and he said, paraphrased, "It depends."

    So, let's take two recent changes.

    1) Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003? Did one, both, neither pay for themselves?

    2) The recent tax increase in the top rate to 39.6% from 35%. Will that increase or decrease tax revenues?
    Please tell me why you keeping more of what you earn has to be paid for? Where is that line item in the budget of the United States??

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Please tell me why you keeping more of what you earn has to be paid for? Where is that line item in the budget of the United States??
    If GOPers want to cut taxes, fine by me. Make the very difficult choices to cut spending to offset the loss in revenue from the tax cuts.

    What I'm objecting to as a fairy tale is the notion that "keeping more of what you earn" (i.e. tax cuts) don't require offsetting spending cuts. Instead, GOPers tell us, and Jack quoted an article in Forbes telling us, that tax cuts pay for themselves and increase revenues, or that there is a Tax Santa Clause.

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