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Thread: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You know, I never hear any liberal talking about spending less or the fact that SS and Medicare were robbed to pay for the Vietnam War and continued well into the 80's.
    As best I can tell (Table 1.4 here: Historical Tables | The White House), the trust funds ran a surplus (reduced operating deficits) by about $45 billion from 1967 to 1973. The trust funds ran a $472 billion surplus (10 times greater) during the Reagan years (82-89). I talk about the latter all the time.

    I never hear any liberal talk about the 3.9 trillion dollar budget Obama has proposed or the fact that there will never be enough money to fund the liberal spending appetite. It is amazing to me that since Obama took office the debt increased over 7 trillion dollars with very little of that due to the wars. Just goes to show how little liberals truly know.
    The last POTUS to 'balance' the budget was Clinton..... in part because he raised tax rates to what have been historical spending levels as a % of GDP. Republicans have spent about what Clinton did, but were too gutless to raise taxes high enough to fund that spending.
    Last edited by JasperL; 10-26-14 at 03:09 AM.

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You can, but you're not proving a thing.

    The top rate only affects a small part of total revenues. Let's do some math. The top 1% pay about 33% of individual INCOME taxes now, and about 20% in 1980. A lot of that tax is capital gains, which was only taxed at the top rate for a couple of years under Reagan, so isn't affected by the top marginal rate. And the 1% starts at around $350k, but the top bracket now only applies to income over about $450k. So there are a lot of 1%ers who don't pay the top rate. But let's say that 25% of personal income is subject to the highest rate. It's lower than that, but we'll go with that number. In 1980 it couldn't have been higher than 15%.

    Individual income taxes are about 45% of collections. So of that, about 11% (.25 X 45) is subject to the top rate. Again, that's too high, because even 1%ers have a lot of income taxed at lower rates - 0 to about $450k - and we're assuming ALL their income is subject to the top rate.

    So on the left hand side you have total revenues (the dependent variable) and on the right side (independent variable) you have ONE rate that at the very most affects 11% of total revenues. So 89% of revenues is completely unaffected your ONE independent variable, changes in that top rate. Now why would anyone do a serious analysis and use an independent variable that AT BEST, would explain only 11% of changes in the dependent variable (if tax rates explained 100% of the changes in revenues - which is ludicrous)? No economist would, such an analysis would be laughed out of any room.

    The TL/DR version of that above is at best the analysis shows a correlation. And of course correlation =/= causation. My favorite correlation is GOP/Democratic Presidents and economic growth.

    Presidents and growth: Timing is everything | The Economist



    Based on this, why would anyone ever vote for a Republican POTUS? It's clear I've just proved that the economy, stock market, GDP growth and jobs all do better when Democrats are in charge! QED.

    And the truth is my conclusion is more defensible (read the article for details) than the hackery Forbes published.
    All discussions of tax rates always focus on the top rate. As for who has managed the economy better, I agree with you. RWR is the Repub exception. What's your point?
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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    All discussions of tax rates always focus on the top rate.
    I agree that's the common way republicans discuss the magic of the Laffer Curve and the existence of a Tax Santa Clause, but because they do it often doesn't make the analysis valid or conclusions true.

    Let's put it this way, do you think the downside of the cost of socialized medicine is that we'll have to cut taxes further to pay for it?

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I agree that's the common way republicans discuss the magic of the Laffer Curve and the existence of a Tax Santa Clause, but because they do it often doesn't make the analysis valid or conclusions true.

    Let's put it this way, do you think the downside of the cost of socialized medicine is that we'll have to cut taxes further to pay for it?
    I'm not sure socialized medicine (whatever that means) would cost more.
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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I'm not sure socialized medicine (whatever that means) would cost more.
    It costs government more, and I see you've trying hard to avoid the point.

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It costs government more, and I see you've trying hard to avoid the point.
    There is no point to avoid. What IS your point?
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Yeah, OK, you don't like liberals. Understood.

    The point is there is no Tax Santa Clause, and a party that relies on one as a foundation of its fiscal policy shouldn't be taken seriously, so I don't.
    Do you understand the basic concept that the tax revenue in the Federal Treasury comes from the people and not vice versa? The govt. taking money from the taxpayers is Robin Hood not Santa Claus and we don't need the massive central govt. that liberals are creating.

    You easily buy what you are told that the Federal Govt. NEEDS the money more than the American people and allowing people to keep more of what they earns means less need for liberalism. That is the bottomline and your real problem

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    As best I can tell (Table 1.4 here: Historical Tables | The White House), the trust funds ran a surplus (reduced operating deficits) by about $45 billion from 1967 to 1973. The trust funds ran a $472 billion surplus (10 times greater) during the Reagan years (82-89). I talk about the latter all the time.



    The last POTUS to 'balance' the budget was Clinton..... in part because he raised tax rates to what have been historical spending levels as a % of GDP. Republicans have spent about what Clinton did, but were too gutless to raise taxes high enough to fund that spending.
    You don't seem to get it, that so called surplus was stealing from future recipients of the money they were entitled to from their contributions to SS and Medicare. There was no surplus because those were future obligations.

    Please explain to me how Clinton increased the debt 1.4 trillion and had a balanced budget? You really are nothing more than a liberal parrot who doesn't understand their are two sides to the budget, public and intergovt. holdings. Taking money from intergovernment holdings and putting it on the public budget doesn't create a complete budget surplus which is why Clinton increased the debt

    Keep spouting the party line and showing that you really have no clue as to what actually happened.

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    There is no point to avoid. What IS your point?
    Obviously the question was do spending increases get paid for with more tax cuts?

    Or, is there a Tax Santa Clause?

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Do you understand the basic concept that the tax revenue in the Federal Treasury comes from the people and not vice versa? The govt. taking money from the taxpayers is Robin Hood not Santa Claus and we don't need the massive central govt. that liberals are creating.

    You easily buy what you are told that the Federal Govt. NEEDS the money more than the American people and allowing people to keep more of what they earns means less need for liberalism. That is the bottomline and your real problem
    What you buy is there is a free lunch on taxes, tax cuts pay for themselves, and if us liberals want to spend more money, we can pay for that additional spending with tax CUTS on the wealthy. I don't buy that because it is a fairy tale and I quit believing in fairy tales sometime around age 4.

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