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Thread: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

  1. #281
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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    that seems to be a problem with you, living in the moment is a foreign concept and the only way it apparently makes you feel better is to adjust real time money into the future value.
    I'm missing the point. Adjusting figures for inflation allows us to compare apples to apples.

    I recognize reality, you don't. Reality is Reagan doubled GDP, created 17 million jobs, created a peace dividend, cut FIT and grew FIT revenue 60%. noticed that the 1.7 trillion Reagan debt is a problem for you but not the 1.4 trillion Clinton debt. Why is that
    You're just throwing out stats. If you want to compare numbers to Clinton, that's fine. But if you're not willing to accept the notion that gains caused by inflation aren't real gains, then we can't have an honest debate.

    And the big difference between the debt record of Reagan and Clinton is Reagan increased the deficit from what he inherited, and Clinton inherited a very large deficit and reduced it every single year until we had a measured "surplus."

    "You know, Paul, Reagan proved deficits don't matter...."

    It has everything to do with the direction of the country. Obama's is wrong, Reagan got it right
    OK, Ronnie is a political Saint. What we're talking about is the notion that tax cuts pay for themselves. We will always have different ideas about appropriate or desirable spending levels. That's a good thing IMO. What I object to is the notion that if conservatives want to increase government spending, they can pay for that spending with a tax CUT, or that tax rate cuts require no difficult choices on spending cuts. It's just false, a lie, cowardly, fiscally stupid, etc.

    And to be complete, of course I accept that tax increases reduce economic growth, and tax cuts (if paid for with spending cuts) increase economic growth.
    If you are going to adjust numbers to inflation, adjust all numbers

    Yes, but the accounts were almost broke and that is the point therefore Reagan didn't have any funds to use as the outflow matched the income. Just like a liberal, one big pot of money, right? Gasoline taxes are to fund what? Why are they on budget for other items? A liberal hasn't seen a dollar they they will not spend and it doesn't matter what pot it is supposed to be in.
    You are including the payroll taxes in the total receipts, and using large increases in payroll taxes to 'prove' that cuts in income tax rates paid for themselves. I'm not objecting to the payroll tax increases. They were necessary.

    Do you realize how irrelevant tax rates are? Effective rates matter, that is what people pay. Congress lowered the tax rates in spite of Clinton's rhetoric and he signed them. now you want to give him credit for what Congress did
    Tax rates matter, which is why when Clinton raised them, taxes reached a record level of GDP. And Congress lowered capital gains rates in 1997 - income tax rates stayed at 39.6%.

    Reagan increased USE taxes not Federal Income Taxes. If you didn't use the product you didn't pay the taxes. Everyone who earned income got a tax cut. what a novel idea, keeping more of what you earn
    TEFRA 82 was a major income tax INCREASE. The biggest in history at that time. This is just part of the historical record.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Equ...ty_Act_of_1982

    If you want to talk taxes, why is it that liberals only want to raise them? Liberals want to give tax cuts to people who don't pay taxes. You call that a taxcut? I call it a handout
    We can debate policy on another thread.
    Last edited by JasperL; 10-22-14 at 03:09 PM.

  2. #282
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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    There is a big difference between an estimate, and actually producing
    someone who cannot vote because they do not have an ID.
    If the estimates did not exclude people who have died, got married,
    or had other forms of valid ID, it did not account for the error in the process.
    The fact that the opponents could only produce one person who claimed
    she did not have an id, says much about how overstated the problem is.
    The several estimates took all that into account, subject to discovery, cross examination, etc.

    The state produced no estimate at all.

    And I think you misunderstand the role of that 'one person' or handful of people. The first barrier to any lawsuit is to establish someone, anyone, with standing. That person was only intended to serve that role. The court couldn't possible make any decision on whether opponents could or could not produce thousands of individuals to parade through the court as witnesses. No court would allow that kind of "proof." It would be a waste of time and money.

    The estimates indicate that the opponents produced a list of 600,000 who didn't have acceptable photo ID.

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    As you've already been shown by previous posters there are multiple forms of ID that are acceptable. What other ID would you suggest be acceptable?

    Look, we live in a society where ID is used to verify the person's identification for nearly everything in life from buying a beer, to getting an assistance payment from the state. The common sense thing here is that if we want to protect our voter integrity from fraud, or illegal voting, that we require a simple proof of identity to cast a ballot.

    If you think that the absentee system is being abused then we can address that, but for now we are talking about voting at the polls. Now, if you want to say that the voter registration card should be enough, when it displays no picture, or anything that would prove that someone else is using another's card then I don't know what to tell you.

    As for it being provable, I really don't know how we would prove enough cases to make liberals agree that ID is required...Further, the past is nothing like what we see today with the absolute flood of illegals entering the country, and groups like LaRaza, and MeCha working to muddy those waters...
    I'd respond, but you don't seem to pay attention to them, so why bother.

    I will mention that the "flood" of illegals today is lower than at any time in decades. And the fact is (almost) no illegal is stupid enough to show up at the polls, impersonate another voter, risk a felony and guaranteed deportation, to cast ONE vote.
    Last edited by JasperL; 10-22-14 at 03:21 PM.

  4. #284
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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I'd respond, but you don't seem to pay attention to them, so why bother.
    I don't understand why you think it is unreasonable for someone to verify who they are when they vote, so yeah, that's what I am asking you...Why bother indeed, unless the whole thing is centered on not being able to verify for the purposes of voting illegally.

    I will mention that the "flood" of illegals today is lower than at any time in decades.
    This claim is not entirely true, and has been debate in here rather vehemently...

    "Morton also announced the implementation of new restrictions on how the agents and officers working under him could use their authority to enforce immigration laws. They were told to curtail the use of detainers, or immigration holds, which give ICE officers the opportunity to question and take custody of illegal aliens identified after arrest by a local law enforcement agency. This directive built on an earlier memo, issued in June 2011, which ordered ICE agents not to arrest certain broad categories of illegal aliens, including minor criminals, long-time residents, students, parents, caregivers, and a long list of other excepted categories for whom there was otherwise no statutory basis for special treatment. These and other directives have been euphemistically characterized as “prosecutorial discretion.”

    This report examines data from a collection of mostly unpublished internal Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and ICE statistics, to provide an alternative evaluation of the administration’s record on immigration enforcement that is based on raw statistics rather than pre-packaged press kits. These statistics show that, contrary to what is commonly believed, in fact immigration enforcement in the interior has slowed significantly in the last few years. ICE is arresting and removing noticeably fewer illegal aliens from the interior now than was the case five years ago, and even two years ago. Its focus has shifted away from interior enforcement in favor of processing aliens who are apprehended by the Border Patrol."

    Deportation Numbers Unwrapped | Center for Immigration Studies

    So, at best the numbers are purposely muddied.

    And the fact is (almost) no illegal is stupid enough to show up at the polls, impersonate another voter, risk a felony and guaranteed deportation, to cast ONE vote.
    You're right, they wouldn't have to, what with all of the liberal "sanctuary cities" and sanctuary DL, and ID laws put in place over the last decade....Consider this report....

    ""We don't know how widespread this problem is because elections offices don't keep track of where non-citizens live," Pierrotti reports, "So we decided to do something that they'd never tried to do before: We found them on our own." The investigation began by examining state forms on which residents had declined jury duty by checking a box indicating that they weren't US citizens, and were therefore ineligible to serve. Pierrotti then cross-referenced those results with local voter rolls, identifying at least 94 people who were registered to vote in the state of Florida. Next, he visited some of these people at their homes, where they admitted that they weren't citizens and professed ignorance as to how they were registered to vote in the first place. But voting records confirmed that they'd exercised their "right" to vote that, as non-citizens, they do not actually possess. The NBC 2 team interviewed a number of these illegal voters on camera, including a Jamaican national who simply attested that he was a US citizen on a voter registration form, and -- voila! -- he joined the American electorate. It was a felony, but it was that easy. And if a news crew hadn't connected the dots, no one would have ever known. This passage in the report is crucial:


    REPORTER: County supervisors of elections tell me they have no way to verify citizenship. Under the 1992 "Motor Voter" law, they're not required to ask for proof.
    HARRINGTON: We have no policing authority. We don't have any way of bouncing that information off of any other database.

    REPORTER: The only way supervisors of elections can investigate voter fraud is if they get a tip, so that's what our list became.

    HARRINGTON: It could be very serious. It could change the whole complexion of an election."

    Fraud: Local NBC Investigation Discovers Dozens of Illegal Voters in Florida - Guy Benson

    So please don't tell me that people that aren't supposed to vote aren't doing so...We have to start somewhere.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The court that heard the evidence overturned SB14.

    And that evidence can be persuasive, but not sufficient to cause the next court to strike SB14, obviously. The number affected isn't presumably the ONLY factor on which the decision rests.
    The law stands. QED
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The law stands. QED
    QED? You're not half way through the proof yet.....

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    QED? You're not half way through the proof yet.....
    I was often criticized for rushing through my work.

    If the court was willing to let the law stand for the election then I conclude they don't have a problem with it.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    A) Dead people voting democratic.... Seriously, you right wingers need to find different material. This one lost it's appeal for the non-crazy share of the population about the same time these new-fangled things called "computers" were invented and went into widespread use to track voter registrations, voting rolls, etc.
    Your credibility is damaged even more than your false narrative.

    850 voters in NYC are officially 164 years old
    By Carl Campanile
    October 22, 2014 | 1:54am


    A single Bronx voter listed in official records as being 164 years old led Board of Elections officials to review their files — where they turned up another 849 New Yorkers who were supposedly alive when Abe Lincoln was president.

    The stunning discovery came after The Post reported last week that the birth date of Luz Pabellon, a spry 73-year-old who has been living and voting in The Bronx since the 1970s, was recorded as Jan. 1, 1850.

    Full article... http://nypost.com/2014/10/22/850-peo...-of-elections/
    Last edited by BringIt; 10-22-14 at 09:22 PM.
    Wake Up America!

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The vast majority of voter fraud occurs via absentee ballots. Not "on the street," but certainly not at the official polling place and none of these will be caught by voter ID laws.
    Once again, liberal talking points fail to pass the smell test.

    Cook County ballot box tries to cast GOP votes for Democrats

    By Contributor / October 22, 2014 /

    CHICAGO — Early Voting in Illinois got off to its typical start Monday, as votes being cast for Republican candidates were transformed into votes for Democrats.

    MACHINE ISSUES: Republican state representative candidate Jim Moynihan had trouble voting for himself on Monday when early voting started in Illinois.
    “I tried to cast a vote for myself and instead it cast the vote for my opponent,” Moynihan said. “You could imagine my surprise as the same thing happened with a number of races when I tried to vote for a Republican and the machine registered a vote for a Democrat.”

    The conservative website Illinois Review reported that “While using a touch screen voting machine in Schaumburg, Moynihan voted for several races on the ballot, only to find that whenever he voted for a Republican candidate, the machine registered the vote for a Democrat in the same race. He notified the election judge at his polling place and demonstrated that it continued to cast a vote for the opposing candidate’s party. Moynihan was eventually allowed to vote for Republican candidates, including his own race.
    Wake Up America!

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The vast majority of voter fraud occurs via absentee ballots.
    You're correct... You sure do know your voter fraud.


    OCTOBER 22, 2014 10:26 AM
    James O’Keefe Strikes Again
    The guerilla filmmaker has exposed how voter fraud is both easy and condoned in Colorado.
    By John Fund

    Many liberals are adamant there is no threat of voter fraud that justifies efforts to improve the integrity of elections. “There is no real concrete evidence of voter fraud,” tweeted Donna Brazile, former acting chair of the Democratic National Committee, this week. “It’s a big ass lie.”

    James O’Keefe, the guerilla filmmaker who brought down the ACORN voter-registration fraudsters in 2010 and forced the resignation of NPR executives, politely disagrees. Today, he is releasing some new undercover footage that raises disturbing questions about ballot integrity in Colorado, the site of fiercely contested races for the U.S. Senate, the U.S. House, and the governorship. When he raised the issue of filling out some of the unused ballots that are mailed to every household in the state this month, he was told by Meredith Hicks, the director of Work for Progress, a liberal group funded by Democratic Super PACS.: “That is not even like lying or something, if someone throws out a ballot, like if you want to fill it out you should do it.” She then brazenly offered O’Keefe, disguised as a middle-aged college instructor, a job with her group.

    Full article with video... James O
    Wake Up America!

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