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Thread: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You ought to just stop...Those that don't have ID's and can't get them, can apply for a permanent exemption...

    "A permanent exemption is available for voters with documented disabilities.
    And according to the court, about 100k of the 600k without ID are disabled. So that only leaves 500,000. And the disabled or others getting out of the photo ID rules are then shunted to absentee ballots, which require no ID at all, and which are FAR more likely to be used for "voter fraud" than someone impersonating another at the polls, so even the exception for the disabled will have the predicted effect of making elections less, not more, secure.

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I'm not really sure what your point is, except that I don't understand something you haven't explained that I got wrong.



    Liberals don't sell their base snake oil. So liberals believe the obvious - there is no Tax Santa Clause. It's amusing that the party of fiscal responsibility and personal responsibility believes in a free lunch on taxes as a cornerstone of their fiscal policy. If government decides to increase spending, that comes with the difficult and painful necessity to RAISE TAXES. Only lemmings believe the trade-off to higher spending is....more tax cuts, to pay for the added spending!!



    I've spent a great amount of time with those tables. First, ERTA '81 was a large tax cut that was slowly unwound over the rest of Reagan's terms. TEFRA '82 was at that time the biggest tax increase in history. In 1983, Reagan raised payroll taxes which you include in that total. TRA 86 lowered rates but was scored as a tax increase. Reagan signed minor tax increases in the rest of the years.

    And federal revenue has increased every decade, regardless of changes in tax rates. And if you want to show that the tax cuts increased revenues, then you have to back out the effect of the tax increases, like TEFRA, and also account for normal population growth, inflation, and some baseline economic growth that has also occurred nearly without pause for more than 200 years.

    Furthermore, you can't ignore the many times in history that tax rates were increased and..... revenues increased. Compare real revenue growth during the Reagan years to the Clinton years. If tax cuts raise revenues, tax increases MUST reduce them. Show me the evidence Clinton's tax increases caused revenues to fall, when revenues increased at a rate far higher than during the Reagan years?
    Only a liberal believes that an American taxpayer keeping more of what THEY earn is a free lunch. Why is that? do you even understand what taxes you pay and what those taxes fund? You think that Federal Income Taxes fund the roads, Medicare, SS? Do you have any idea why Federal Income Tax revenue increased 60% AFTER the Reagan Tax cuts? Can you name for me any time in history where FIT increased that much? Why is this so hard for you to understand, you keeping more of your own money creates greater demand and that increases jobs-17 million of them during the Reagan term? Whether you save it, invest it, spend it, or pay down debt it doesn't matter, that helps stimulate economic growth and that creates jobs thus new taxpayers. Get it yet? one of these days the light bulb is going to go off in your head

    As for tax increases growing revenue, you are in total denial of what happened in 1994. Figure it out and get back to me

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
    Just an FYI...

    A U.S. District Court judge in Corpus Christi struck down the ID law after a nine-day trial.

    Neither the Fifth Circuit’s action so far nor the Supreme Court’s order dealt with the issue of the law’s constitutionality.
    I agree with that. Those are the "next courts" I was trying to refer to above. The point was the only decision so far struck down the law.

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You ought to just stop...Those that don't have ID's and can't get them, can apply for a permanent exemption...
    According to your source, that doesn't include ALL without Photo Id. Note the bolded.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac
    "A permanent exemption is available for voters with documented disabilities. Voters with a disability may apply with the county voter registrar for a permanent exemption. The application must contain written documentation from either the U.S. Social Security Administration evidencing the applicant’s disability, or from the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs evidencing a disability rating of at least 50 percent. In addition, the applicant must state that he or she has no valid form of photo identification. Those who obtain a disability exemption will be allowed to vote by presenting a voter registration certificate reflecting the exemption.

    Affidavits are available for voters who have a consistent religious objection to being photographed and for voters who do not have any photo identification as a result of certain natural disasters as declared by the President of the United States or the Texas Governor within 45 days of the day the ballot was cast."

    VoteTexas.gov » Need ID?
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
    Just an FYI...

    A U.S. District Court judge in Corpus Christi struck down the ID law after a nine-day trial.

    Neither the Fifth Circuit’s action so far nor the Supreme Court’s order dealt with the issue of the law’s constitutionality.
    Early voting has begun in Houston and throughout the state. Houston is 58% Hispanic and has a Democrat Mayor. Reports from the polling areas show no problems at all and people aren't complaining about showing a photo ID. Only those with something to hide seem to have a problem with it.

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I agree with that. Those are the "next courts" I was trying to refer to above. The point was the only decision so far struck down the law.
    Yep, the court that actually heard the evidence.
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    And according to the court, about 100k of the 600k without ID are disabled. So that only leaves 500,000. And the disabled or others getting out of the photo ID rules are then shunted to absentee ballots, which require no ID at all, and which are FAR more likely to be used for "voter fraud" than someone impersonating another at the polls, so even the exception for the disabled will have the predicted effect of making elections less, not more, secure.
    Yep, so the other 500K need to get their butt's down and get an ID. If they can't they can do a provisional ballot.

    If your argument is that people can still cheat using absentee ballots, then you shouldn't be against Voter ID, because demo's will just use absentee to steal elections like they have recently in contests like Al Franken's win....

    Liberals are just showing that they really don't want integrity of the vote...
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
    According to your source, that doesn't include ALL without Photo Id. Note the bolded.
    Yep, the argument was the emotional one that liberals were using, that people couldn't get down to the DMV to get an ID, and I just provided that if they are disabled then they get an exemption...If they are not disabled, then they have NO excuse.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Only a liberal believes that an American taxpayer keeping more of what THEY earn is a free lunch. Why is that?
    That's a deliberate, I assume, misstatement of my position. What I object to is the a belief that easy, gutless, cowardly decision to pair spending increases with tax rate CUTS requires someone to believe in a free lunch, a Tax Santa Clause, a Tax Fairy, magic - pick your metaphor.

    Bottom line is society has a difficult task setting spending levels. If we want to spend MORE, we have to raise taxes. If we want to cut taxes, then some very painful decisions have to be made about spending CUTS. Right wing fiscal policy rests on the notion that if we want to spend MORE, then to pay for it, we give everyone another tax cut!

    do you even understand what taxes you pay and what those taxes fund? You think that Federal Income Taxes fund the roads, Medicare, SS? Do you have any idea why Federal Income Tax revenue increased 60% AFTER the Reagan Tax cuts? Can you name for me any time in history where FIT increased that much? Why is this so hard for you to understand, you keeping more of your own money creates greater demand and that increases jobs-17 million of them during the Reagan term? Whether you save it, invest it, spend it, or pay down debt it doesn't matter, that helps stimulate economic growth and that creates jobs thus new taxpayers. Get it yet? one of these days the light bulb is going to go off in your head
    Yes, I understand what taxes I pay because I've done taxes for a living since 1988.

    And like I said, we have a natural experiment in our lifetimes. On an inflation adjusted bases, tax receipts (total, individual, corporate, payroll) increased by 20% in the Reagan era. Receipts increased by 47% in the Clinton era. Real GDP growth during that time was roughly the same - about 33% for both periods.

    Real tax data here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/defa...s/hist01z3.xls
    I will find a real GDP link if you want to check that number.

    So tax receipts, given similar increases in GDP, rose more than twice as fast (47 versus 20) during the Clinton era, following Clinton tax rate increases. And that's consistent with individual income taxes as a percent of GDP. During the Reagan years, that decreased from 9% to 8%. During Clinton years, that increased from 7.5% to 9.4%. This is baby math, and the GOP wants to argue with math. Tax cuts lower revenue, tax increases raise revenue.

    As for tax increases growing revenue, you are in total denial of what happened in 1994. Figure it out and get back to me
    If you have a point, make it. I'm not going to guess what that point might be. Several things happened in 1994. Other things happened in 1996. Etc.

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yep, so the other 500K need to get their butt's down and get an ID. If they can't they can do a provisional ballot.
    They can cast a provisional, but it won't count unless they get the photo ID.

    If your argument is that people can still cheat using absentee ballots, then you shouldn't be against Voter ID, because demo's will just use absentee to steal elections like they have recently in contests like Al Franken's win....
    Yeah, whatever. Democrats bad, republicans good, only democrats cheat, I get it.

    Liberals are just showing that they really don't want integrity of the vote...
    No, we don't want right wingers seeking partisan advantage by putting barriers to the right to vote in front of the poor that will have no effect on 'voter fraud' at the polls, which by every estimate everywhere is nearly zero.

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