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Thread: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I say we need to try a little experiment: Have the voters show their picture ID when they go to the polls, but don't require it to actually vote. Give everyone who does show a picture ID five bucks for their trouble.

    Then, we'd know just how many voters actually don't have picture ID.

    My prediction? Maybe half a dozen or so.
    Hilarious. They do have databases of 1) registered voters, 2) those with photo IDs. It's not an easy thing to compare them, but by ALL estimates the numbers in larger states hit several hundred thousand - 600k-1M - without the required photo IDs. In smaller states, only a couple hundred thousand don't.

    But evidence is apparently optional in right wing land.

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Exactly. Try getting a lot of things without a photo ID. Use a credit card. Visit a national or state park on an annual pass. drive a car. cash a check. open a bank account.

    How many people can there really be who actually go to the polls, but don't do any of the above? Surely, the few if any could be provided with photo ID at minimal cost.
    Also hilarious. You do those things, so obviously poor people, mostly in urban areas, do them too! You should spend some time with poor people sometime, just to educate yourself. They really do live lives totally different than those in the middle and upper middle class! Lots of them don't have bank accounts, don't drive, sure as hell don't buy annual passes to national parks they can't get to because they don't have a car, can't get a credit card (bad credit), and so pay cash for most everything, including rent and utilities.

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Hilarious. They do have databases of 1) registered voters, 2) those with photo IDs. It's not an easy thing to compare them, but by ALL estimates the numbers in larger states hit several hundred thousand - 600k-1M - without the required photo IDs. In smaller states, only a couple hundred thousand don't.

    But evidence is apparently optional in right wing land.
    Really? A database of everyone who has a photo ID?

    Such a thing is possible, yes, but does it really exist?
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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Also hilarious. You do those things, so obviously poor people, mostly in urban areas, do them too! You should spend some time with poor people sometime, just to educate yourself. They really do live lives totally different than those in the middle and upper middle class! Lots of them don't have bank accounts, don't drive, sure as hell don't buy annual passes to national parks they can't get to because they don't have a car, can't get a credit card (bad credit), and so pay cash for most everything, including rent and utilities.
    How many of those urban poor riding around in busses, living hand to mouth, and paying cash for everything actually vote?
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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    That's because such an idea is ludicrous. Polling places should not be expected to have the infrastructure in place for official state IDs that cannot be done the same day even at the places where they are presently obtained.
    I guess you just aren't willing to ensure secure elections while also ensuring people aren't disenfranchised.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Really? A database of everyone who has a photo ID?

    Such a thing is possible, yes, but does it really exist?
    Note one database, but databaseS exist of, e.g. all those with driver's licenses, carry permits, passports, etc. And people have spent great amounts of time matching lists of registered voters to those lists, presented the findings in court, allowed for discovery and cross examination, and various courts accept, based on that evidence and lack of contradicting evidence, that hundreds of thousands do not have the required ID in large states. The dispute in Texas is on the scale of whether the number is closer to 400,000 OR 600,000. As I recall, PA was estimated to be 600k. NC nearer 200k.

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    How many of those urban poor riding around in busses, living hand to mouth, and paying cash for everything actually vote?
    Why is that number, Mr. Allegedly Libertarian, so critical? How many does it need to be?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Why is that number, Mr. Allegedly Libertarian, so critical? How many does it need to be?
    Enough that it would be prohibitively expensive to supply them with a picture ID.

    If there really are so many voters who live from day to day paying cash for everything, depending on public transportation, depending on low wage jobs or public welfare (don't they need ID for that?) then it seems to me we would do them a huge favor to provide them with picture ID. Maybe they could open bank accounts and not depend on the usurer who cashes checks. Perhaps, when they get run over on the street, the health care providers would actually know who they were. Missing people would be easier to find.

    If there really are 600,000 eligible voters in Texas who don't have ID, and if 10% of them vote (which is a big if), then that's 60,000 IDs that would be needed at say, $5 each for a total of $300,000. Surely, a wealthy state like Texas could afford that.
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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Ok, so ID laws for guns don't help, but ID laws for fraudulent votes do?
    Yes, they do.
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    Re: SC allows Texas to use New Voter ID Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    How many of those urban poor riding around in busses, living hand to mouth, and paying cash for everything actually vote?
    The lists of those with photo IDs is being compared to a list of REGISTERED VOTERS. So you can safely assume 400,000 or so in Texas vote at least occasionally and don't have the ID required by the new rules.

    And it's true that the vast majority of people, including the urban poor, do have the required ID. But in a state like Texas with 26 million people, about 8 million voted in the 2012 election, probably 12-15 million registered, it's not hard to get to 3 or 4% without the required ID.

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