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Thread: Africa stems ebola via border closings, luck

  1. #101
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    Re: Africa stems ebola via border closings, luck

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    i've already explained how this would work. refer to my previous post.
    Nothing in your previous posts address the enforcement of a quarantine. All your argument is that there should be a provable one. But that itself is meaningless and I've already pointed out how someone could prove it and still get infected. Furthermore, your explanations do not cover anything about airlines we have no influence over.

    imagine the cost of doing nothing, and then quarantining everyone who came in contact with a sick commercial passenger from West Africa.
    You do realize your proposal leads to quarantining everyone who came in contact with a sick commercial passenger a regional hub right? That's significantly more people.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Africa stems ebola via border closings, luck

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Nothing in your previous posts address the enforcement of a quarantine. All your argument is that there should be a provable one. But that itself is meaningless and I've already pointed out how someone could prove it and still get infected. Furthermore, your explanations do not cover anything about airlines we have no influence over.
    i understand that you support doing nothing. either way, if it starts spreading here, they will enact something pretty similar to what i am proposing. it would cost a lot less to do it now.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    You do realize your proposal leads to quarantining everyone who came in contact with a sick commercial passenger a regional hub right? That's significantly more people.
    which would not have to happen if we required commercial airlines to provide proof that everyone coming in from West Africa had undergone a quarantine before getting on a plane in the first place.

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    Re: Africa stems ebola via border closings, luck

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    i understand that you support doing nothing. either way, if it starts spreading here, they will enact something pretty similar to what i am proposing. it would cost a lot less to do it now.
    I support actually doing healthcare over in West Africa and taking care of people who are sick here. I do not support a travel ban system that risks exposing millions of people in regional hubs to the disease and thus making this a truly global pandemic that will require a complete international flight ban. When it starts spreading here, we'll manage it like we do every other disease. Despite the ranting lunacy of idiots, Ebola is actually pretty hard to get unless you're in long term exposure. Look at those who did get it, family members taking care of the sick and medical staff in long term exposure. This is why I'm very against your proposal as it strands infected people in high density hubs where they they will expose more and more people. Someone who's sick and spreads the disease all over an international hub bathroom day after day to hundreds of thousands of people is far more of a threat than someone who spends 1 hour in a transit lounge, gets on a plane and slightly exposes a few people around them to the disease for a transatlantic flight. And to be totally honest, the number of West Africans flying to America is pretty small number as it is.

    which would not have to happen if we required commercial airlines to provide proof that everyone coming in from West Africa had undergone a quarantine before getting on a plane in the first place.
    This wouldn't have happened in the airlines serving West Africa had done it for us. But they didn't and we cannot control them any more than we could before.

    From a partisan view point, Obama's right for not doing a travel ban. It's going to fail for the reasons I listed and then the GOP is going to blame him for it failing AND he would have gone against the numerous medical and transit experts. Ignoring advice and having it fail and then exposing millions of people globally is far worse than following advice and having it inevitably fail but not stranding infected in high density international hubs.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Africa stems ebola via border closings, luck

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I support actually doing healthcare over in West Africa and taking care of people who are sick here. I do not support a travel ban system that risks exposing millions of people in regional hubs to the disease and thus making this a truly global pandemic that will require a complete international flight ban. When it starts spreading here, we'll manage it like we do every other disease. Despite the ranting lunacy of idiots, Ebola is actually pretty hard to get unless you're in long term exposure. Look at those who did get it, family members taking care of the sick and medical staff in long term exposure. This is why I'm very against your proposal as it strands infected people in high density hubs where they they will expose more and more people. Someone who's sick and spreads the disease all over an international hub bathroom day after day to hundreds of thousands of people is far more of a threat than someone who spends 1 hour in a transit lounge, gets on a plane and slightly exposes a few people around them to the disease for a transatlantic flight. And to be totally honest, the number of West Africans flying to America is pretty small number as it is.
    i support keeping the sick off of commercial flights, and instead bringing them here on military aircraft. then we have more control, and we would save a lot of money.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    This wouldn't have happened in the airlines serving West Africa had done it for us. But they didn't and we cannot control them any more than we could before.

    From a partisan view point, Obama's right for not doing a travel ban. It's going to fail for the reasons I listed and then the GOP is going to blame him for it failing AND he would have gone against the numerous medical and transit experts. Ignoring advice and having it fail and then exposing millions of people globally is far worse than following advice and having it inevitably fail but not stranding infected in high density international hubs.
    i don't give a **** about Obama, the Democrats, or the Republicans when it comes to this issue. bring people here to treat them, and let medical professionals come and go. however, there is no advantage to letting people with Ebola get on commercial flights, and then panic once they get here. that costs a lot of money, and it is easily preventable.

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    Re: Africa stems ebola via border closings, luck

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    i support keeping the sick off of commercial flights, and instead bringing them here on military aircraft. then we have more control, and we would save a lot of money.
    If we can somehow keep them from boarding flights, that would actually do what you propose. Your proposal is about 2 stops too late. We gotta stop them on the initial boarding of the first plane, not the boarding to the flight in the US. But as I've stated, we have no influence over these carriers aside from that one flight I think American Airlines (which I'm pretty sure they canceled) provides to West Africa from a European hub. We're trying to close the barn after the horses left. If we could somehow impose a medical check on flights out of West Africa, I'd be totally for that. But I don't see how that can be done without a global effort, especially from the regional hub governments. If the UAE, Thailand, Jordan, and European governments mandated this to allow passengers off into their hubs, it would actually achieve our goal. Right now, it's simply out of our hands.

    don't give a **** about Obama, the Democrats, or the Republicans when it comes to this issue. bring people here to treat them, and let medical professionals come and go. however, there is no advantage to letting people with Ebola get on commercial flights, and then panic once they get here. that costs a lot of money, and it is easily preventable.
    But it's worse to strand them in formerly safe zones turning what was a Ebola free area into a contaminated zone. Again, it's going to be a hell of a lot worse when we're dealing with a global pandemic because we've turned hubs into infection zones. I think it's easily preventable to stop the spread, but it's not something our government can do simply because our influence on the carriers servicing the area is effectively nil. We have to lean on the Jordanians, the Thais, the UAE and the Europeans to do this for us. The US simply doesn't have the influence to force these hubs directly to force the carriers to enact the necessary medical protocols. But we should not take steps to turn disease free zones into long term infection zones.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Africa stems ebola via border closings, luck

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    If we can somehow keep them from boarding flights, that would actually do what you propose. Your proposal is about 2 stops too late. We gotta stop them on the initial boarding of the first plane, not the boarding to the flight in the US. But as I've stated, we have no influence over these carriers aside from that one flight I think American Airlines (which I'm pretty sure they canceled) provides to West Africa from a European hub. We're trying to close the barn after the horses left. If we could somehow impose a medical check on flights out of West Africa, I'd be totally for that. But I don't see how that can be done without a global effort, especially from the regional hub governments. If the UAE, Thailand, Jordan, and European governments mandated this to allow passengers off into their hubs, it would actually achieve our goal. Right now, it's simply out of our hands.
    if commercial airlines have to pay for 21 days of quarantine upon arrival, the problem will solve itself.


    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    But it's worse to strand them in formerly safe zones turning what was a Ebola free area into a contaminated zone. Again, it's going to be a hell of a lot worse when we're dealing with a global pandemic because we've turned hubs into infection zones. I think it's easily preventable to stop the spread, but it's not something our government can do simply because our influence on the carriers servicing the area is effectively nil. We have to lean on the Jordanians, the Thais, the UAE and the Europeans to do this for us. The US simply doesn't have the influence to force these hubs directly to force the carriers to enact the necessary medical protocols. But we should not take steps to turn disease free zones into long term infection zones.
    i don't support stranding anyone. we can bring sick people in via military flights. i'm talking about commercial flights. it makes no sense to bring people in from West Africa on commercial flights without a 21 day quarantine.

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