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Thread: SECOND Dallas Hospital Worker Tests Positive for Ebola

  1. #431
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    Re: SECOND Dallas Hospital Worker Tests Positive for Ebola

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Outside of the obvious, the flu has been with us for a while now, and we have a vaccine for it, that some refuse it, is their choice. But, the fear behind Ebola, is that we know relatively little about it, or its possibility to mutate to airborne...And there is NO vaccine for it...Add to that the fact that we keep getting told different stories about this thing as it gets worse and worse. First there was no way we would see a case here, then we have a case but it is contained and treated, then there was NO possibility of anyone coming here and infecting anyone here, and guess what that happened...Now we are told that security against this is tightened, and another case pops up....My God...Do we really have to wait until Ebola kills as many as the flu, or God forbid gets airborne, and starts spreading without people carrying it in? Why aren't we being told the truth?

    So, you go ahead and take comfort in your denial if you wish, I will continue to think that our so called "controls" are not yet strong enough.
    I'm not in denial, I'm following this situation very carefully. First of all - the odds that Ebola will suddenly turn airborne are miniscule, according to all serious scientists. Look, has HIV ever turned airborne? What about hepatitis B? What about hepatitis C? Viruses that are only transmitted by bodily fluids tend to remain so. Therefore, all the airborne talk is nothing other than hysteria and fear-mongering. Ebola is NOT airborne. Ebola DOES NOT propagate easily in a developed country that has a decent health system and can isolate contacts. Look, not even the family of Mr. Duncan contracted Ebola from him, much less the general public that had no contact with him. Only two nurses of the 170 some people in the hospital who got in contact with him and treated him directly, contracted the disease, apparently through not following proper protocol. Learning from this mistake, the protocol has been tightened up. I won't be surprised if no health care worker contracts it from the NY doctor, now that the protocol is tight. Emory Hospital, Nebraska, and the NIH hospital in Maryland, all successfully treated Ebola patients and no health care worker got sick there (because they were following proper protocol, unlike a small community hospital in Dallas).

    Were there mistakes made? Yes, this disease shouldn't be treated in unprepared small community hospitals by well-meaning, but poorly trained nurses. The two victims of this mistake are now Ebola-free. From now on I believe things will be tighter.

    So, get this in your head: THERE IS NO OUTBREAK OF EBOLA IN THE UNITED STATES! One foreigner died. He did not receive the treatments our fellow Americans have been receiving (which is ethically questionable but that's another story). ALL fellow American citizens who contracted Ebola while trying to help patients, have been successfully treated and got cured.

    In view of all of the above, don't you think that the fear has been excessive?

    Can you say in all confidence that the people who spread the fear, fan the fire, and yell out loud that Obama is trying to bring down America by not restricting flights, aren't actually speaking from a political agenda? Be honest, can you?

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    Re: SECOND Dallas Hospital Worker Tests Positive for Ebola

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    We can simply STOP issuing them VISA'S.

    Its that simple
    Yep. That works. Ask the 11 million illegals we have in this country (and counting; probably more), how efficient not having a visa was, to prevent them from coming here.

    Look, no Western democracy has banned visas from Ebola-affected countries. None. You guys think our president is stupid and has evil intentions for not doing it. Are you saying then that ALL the presidents and prime ministers of ALL Western democracies are stupid and have evil intentions?

    Couldn't it be because they are listening to the experts who say that attempts to prevent international travel have never stopped any epidemic from spreading and often made it worse?

    What is needed is screening, monitoring, quarantining of contacts, and this is actually being done.

    We are a country of 330 million people. We had 2 of our citizens contracting the disease here (thanks to some temporarily loose protocol which by now has been fixed), and a handful of doctors and missionaries who contracted the disease over there while trying to help. ALL our citizens recovered.

    So much for your horrible outbreak.

    Of course, the more you cry out loud that the sky is falling, the better the Right will do in the upcoming elections, so, I won't be surprised if I continue to hear the fear-mongering.
    Last edited by GreatNews2night; 10-24-14 at 06:00 PM.

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    Re: SECOND Dallas Hospital Worker Tests Positive for Ebola

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    It's because we CAN'T prevent them from coming here through flight restrictions.
    Like officials in African countries that didn't adopt restrictions said, it's best to have people coming legally and be screened, monitored, and tracked, then to try to enforce a blanket prohibition, in which case people will get around it and sneak in undetected, and untraceable.

    If flight restrictions COULD prevent people from coming here, then I'd be for them. The sad reality is that they can't. THEY. JUST. DON'T. WORK. This has been proven over and over in other epidemics.

    So, flight restrictions are nothing more than a political talking point the Right is using to attack the president. They are ineffective and actually can backfire.
    And flight and other travel restrictions make it harder to get aid and workers and supplies to the region, and that's where the outbreak will have to controlled.

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    Re: SECOND Dallas Hospital Worker Tests Positive for Ebola

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    Yep. That works. Ask the 11 million illegals we have in this country (and counting; probably more), how efficient not having a Visa was, to prevent them from coming here.

    So you're telling me, a West African, who is not yet symptomatic but who has ebola, has the time to some how get into Mexico WITHOUT a Visa, pay a Coyote and then make it accross the Southern border before succumbing to Ebola ?

    Are you friken serious ? Now you're just reaching

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    Re: SECOND Dallas Hospital Worker Tests Positive for Ebola

    "So, in your opinion, preventing people who have been to ebola country recently, from coming to the US, will have no effect of the probability of additional Ebola cases in the US?

    It is counter intuitive. Please explain."

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    It's because we CAN'T prevent them from coming here through flight restrictions.
    Why not? Explain why, when everyone who comes here must have permission, do you believe that we cannot stop potentially Ebola-infected people from coming here. Just say no.

    Like officials in African countries that didn't adopt restrictions said, it's best to have people coming legally and be screened, monitored, and tracked, than to try to enforce a blanket prohibition, in which case people will get around it and sneak in undetected, and untraceable.
    In your opinion how many of the 150 per day that we currently allow in would come if they had to walk in? One? Two? Five?

    If flight restrictions COULD prevent people from coming here, then I'd be for them. The sad reality is that they can't. THEY. JUST. DON'T. WORK. This has been proven over and over in other epidemics.
    Really? Not giving permission for 150 potentially Ebola-infected people per day from coming here would not keep them out? This is political for you isn't it? It would work just fine if we did it. But if we close the "aerial" border because of this disease then we should and could close the land borders to the invaders from our south. But you and president Obola want to change the nature of the electorate and the way to do that is to import the poorest, sickest people available. You and president Ebama have brought us Ebola and several strains of the enterovirus.

    So, flight restrictions are nothing more than a political talking point the Right is using to attack the president. They are ineffective and actually can backfire.
    This is completely nonsensical. I know that you already know this.

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    Re: SECOND Dallas Hospital Worker Tests Positive for Ebola

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    And flight and other travel restrictions make it harder to get aid and workers and supplies to the region, and that's where the outbreak will have to controlled.
    Ah, I see. I don't believe you. I don't believe you believe you. You may go there. I encourage you to do so. Just don't plan on coming back until after you have been out of ebola country for a while.

    If you are American you can pay to be isolated for three weeks. If you are not you may not come here for much longer.

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    Re: SECOND Dallas Hospital Worker Tests Positive for Ebola

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    Yep. That works. Ask the 11 million illegals we have in this country (and counting; probably more), how efficient not having a visa was, to prevent them from coming here.
    And enterovirus and tuberculosis are here with a vengeance. And this is the democratic party's fault for issuing the invitation. It is president Ebama's fault. He deserves to pay the price for the enterovirus deaths.

    Look, no Western democracy has banned visas from Ebola-affected countries. None. You guys think our president is stupid and has evil intentions for not doing it. Are you saying then that ALL the presidents and prime ministers of ALL Western democracies are stupid and have evil intentions?
    I don't really care what other countries do. We do not need to follow other corrupt nations. Yes, The One on the golf course is an evil man. Even if he did the right thing and stopped granting visas to potentially Ebola-infected people from coming here, he would still be evil. He is inherently evil.

    Couldn't it be because they are listening to the experts who say that attempts to prevent international travel have never stopped any epidemic from spreading and often made it worse?
    Lemmings.

    What is needed is screening, monitoring, quarantining of contacts, and this is actually being done.
    This is a good second line of defense. Step one is to stop the obvious suspects from coming here.

    We are a country of 330 million people. We had 2 of our citizens contracting the disease here (thanks to some temporarily loose protocol which by now has been fixed), and a handful of doctors and missionaries who contracted the disease over there while trying to help. ALL our citizens recovered.

    So much for your horrible outbreak.
    We have been lucky. Let's hope we continue to be lucky. Let's also stop granting visas to people who have recently been in Ebola country.

    Of course, the more you cry out loud that the sky is falling, the better the Right will do in the upcoming elections, so, I won't be surprised if I continue to hear the fear-mongering.
    I wonder how many people have actually arrived here with Ebola.

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    Re: SECOND Dallas Hospital Worker Tests Positive for Ebola

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Ah, I see. I don't believe you. I don't believe you believe you. You may go there. I encourage you to do so. Just don't plan on coming back until after you have been out of ebola country for a while.

    If you are American you can pay to be isolated for three weeks. If you are not you may not come here for much longer.
    Well, I could believe health experts and those who have been involved in multiple outbreaks of various diseases and do this kind of thing as a career, OR random partisan internet guy and ignoramuses on cable news and talk radio.

    It's a tough decision but I'll go with the experts.

    And, yes, I believe me. Can't imagine any point of lying on a debate forum. There's always going to be someone on the other side of the issue.

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    Re: SECOND Dallas Hospital Worker Tests Positive for Ebola

    You packed alot in here, so I am going to break it up a bit to address it properly...

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    I'm not in denial, I'm following this situation very carefully. First of all - the odds that Ebola will suddenly turn airborne are miniscule, according to all serious scientists.
    This is a disturbing opening, and one that may be your opinion but not one that anyone looking for rational discussion of the situation would consider as well meaning debate...First, You personally can't speak to the odds, you are not a trained physician, or virologist as far as I know. Second, your use speaking to "all serious scientists" is dismissive blather that makes one roll their eyes...IOW, if a scientist doesn't say what you believe you dismiss them as un-serious...Shame on you.

    Look, has HIV ever turned airborne? What about hepatitis B? What about hepatitis C? Viruses that are only transmitted by bodily fluids tend to remain so.
    Every viral disease is different, and acts differently. It is crazy to think that because HIV isn't airborne, that another can't become airborne. That is a silly comparison.

    Therefore, all the airborne talk is nothing other than hysteria and fear-mongering. Ebola is NOT airborne.
    Maybe some of it yeah....I for one am not at this point overly concerned that the cases we see in America will become airborne, or out of control, but that doesn't mean that it never could, or that at some point this could get away from officials, and part of the concern today is that we are not being told the truth.

    Ebola DOES NOT propagate easily in a developed country that has a decent health system and can isolate contacts.
    Good. But I doubt that the disease differentiates between 1st world, and 3rd world...But I am glad you brought up contacts. This is what I am talking about here...People like this NY Doc. comes back in, and goes for a run, goes to work out, goes bowling, and takes an Ubercar around...Now they say they are contacting 4 people, but who the hell knows? It is irresponsible not to have him have had to identify, and be stopped BEFORE he had the chance to act in the irresponsible manner he did.

    Look, not even the family of Mr. Duncan contracted Ebola from him, much less the general public that had no contact with him. Only two nurses of the 170 some people in the hospital who got in contact with him and treated him directly, contracted the disease, apparently through not following proper protocol.
    Thank God...I believe that was pure luck.

    Learning from this mistake, the protocol has been tightened up.
    So they say. We shall see.

    I won't be surprised if no health care worker contracts it from the NY doctor, now that the protocol is tight. Emory Hospital, Nebraska, and the NIH hospital in Maryland, all successfully treated Ebola patients and no health care worker got sick there (because they were following proper protocol, unlike a small community hospital in Dallas).
    I hope you're right...The problem is that when you're wrong, the people you were wrong about will die.

    Were there mistakes made? Yes, this disease shouldn't be treated in unprepared small community hospitals by well-meaning, but poorly trained nurses. The two victims of this mistake are now Ebola-free. From now on I believe things will be tighter.
    They are Ebola free as far as you know right now...There is some speculation within the scientific community that the incubation period may be longer than 21days...

    So, get this in your head
    Don't talk to me like that...You don't know me, and wouldn't talk like that to my face so knock it off or we are done, Got it?

    One foreigner died. He did not receive the treatments our fellow Americans have been receiving (which is ethically questionable but that's another story). ALL fellow American citizens who contracted Ebola while trying to help patients, have been successfully treated and got cured.
    That you know of...I hope you're right.

    In view of all of the above, don't you think that the fear has been excessive?
    I think the so called "fear" has been hyped by liberals looking to label, mock, and stifle real concern...

    Can you say in all confidence that the people who spread the fear, fan the fire, and yell out loud that Obama is trying to bring down America by not restricting flights, aren't actually speaking from a political agenda? Be honest, can you?
    No more than liberals ready to scream racism at every FUBAR situation that proves our government dropped the ball, especially as you alluded to earlier in this post alone...

    Is this a scary disease? You bet. Are we in danger of walking out of the house and contracting Ebola tomorrow? No...But that doesn't mean that we need smug, arrogant, dismissive bull**** from liberals that think they know it all, and to date sure look like every damned thing catches them by surprise.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: SECOND Dallas Hospital Worker Tests Positive for Ebola

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    First, You personally can't speak to the odds, you are not a trained physician, or virologist as far as I know. Second, your use speaking to "all serious scientists" is dismissive blather that makes one roll their eyes...IOW, if a scientist doesn't say what you believe you dismiss them as un-serious...Shame on you.
    See your double standard. You made assumptions about my knowledge of virology or lack thereof, and then you say this:

    Don't talk to me like that...You don't know me
    Well, you also don't know me. I assure you, I know a lot more about virology than you assume. Since I don't believe in pulling rank and talking about personal expertise in the Internet because nothing can be proven (this is an anonymous site and I certainly prefer to keep my private information, well, private), I won't say more; but I will say this: you are *completely* wrong when you assume I don't know my virology.

    Every viral disease is different, and acts differently. It is crazy to think that because HIV isn't airborne, that another can't become airborne. That is a silly comparison.
    You are wrong. Viruses can be clustered in classes and within the classes they do behave similarly. I repeat, Ebola is NOT an airborne virus, and significant chances that it will become one only exist in the wild dreams of non-serious scientists who want publicity. Ebola is not a new phenomenon. It's been around, and it is not airborne. Period.

    No more than liberals ready to scream racism at every FUBAR situation that proves our government dropped the ball
    I'm only slightly liberal. In this Ebola "crisis" however I can clearly see what the Right is doing, and it isn't pretty.

    ----------

    Edit: Oh, and I forgot:

    You said:

    But I doubt that the disease differentiates between 1st world, and 3rd world...
    Oh wow. And *I'm* the one who doesn't know virology and epidemiology, in your opinion.

    Try this:

    An index case happens in West Africa. It rapidly spreads to family members. People don't use hospitals. No resources exist to isolate people, who live in dire sanitary conditions. People die like flies. The dead are touched extensively by family members in their rituals. Many more people contract it. The disease spreads like wild fire. Ignorant masses break into hospitals and take the patients out of hospitals, think the infection is a joke. Meanwhile more than half the health care providers die of the disease. Soon thousands of cases develop and it's projected that by January the number of new cases will reach 10,000 per week. Mortality is at 70%.



    The virus makes its entrance in America. One case infects two nurses out of the 170 people who cared for the patient. The two nurses are treated with advanced experimental medications and the serum of recovered patients. In a matter of days the virus is gone from their bodies and they recover. ALL other Americans similarly treated survive (a death rate of 0% as compared to 70% in Africa). No general public spread is seen.

    OK... according to you there is no epidemiological difference between transmission rates and mortality in the first world and third world, huh?

    And then... you question *my* knowledge of these matters.

    Good one.

    Tell me another good joke, please.
    Last edited by GreatNews2night; 10-25-14 at 12:16 AM.

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