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Thread: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons, internal communications

  1. #41
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    Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    It may well be way too broad. Opposing council regularly asks for way more that what probably pertains to a case. If that is what is going on here, then they will easily be able to get it thrown out. There is nothing at all abnormal about what is going on. This is how the discovery process works in the majority of cases. If those churches are being persecuted they should call up the local ACLU.
    In a political climate like we have today it's just plain stupid to make such a broad based request. I can't imagine that a reasonable attorney, especially one with a political interest at stake, would head down this path if their motivation was really to gather evidence. Attacking religious institutions (or even giving that impression) is generally a really bad political strategy.

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    Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Is it a Conservative political lizard imposing tyranny on the local churches, or a Liberal political lizard?
    No, it's a conservative insisting that subpoenas require probable cause.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    My friend, the 4th Amendment has two clauses. One covers "unreasonable searches and seizures" and the other covers warrants. A subpoena is covered by the first clause and the "reasonableness" standard applies. As it says right in the link you provided (but apparently didn't read) a subpoena can be quashed on Constitutional grounds.
    Google "subpoena probable cause" and tell me probable cause is required for any and all subpoenas.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    In a political climate like we have today it's just plain stupid to make such a broad based request. I can't imagine that a reasonable attorney, especially one with a political interest at stake, would head down this path if their motivation was really to gather evidence. Attacking religious institutions (or even giving that impression) is generally a really bad political strategy.
    We would benefit from having more people in our government who are more concerned about upholding the law than the next election cycle.

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    Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    A subpoena duces tecum is niether a search nor a seizure. Why is it those who talk the most about the constitution tend to know the least?
    I believe that if you do a little looking around you'll find that subpoenas are pretty much always subject to a "reasonableness" standard. I'd recommend starting with Boyd v US

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    Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    We would benefit from having more people in our government who are more concerned about upholding the law than the next election cycle.
    Agreed. Definitely agreed.

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    Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Google "subpoena probable cause" and tell me probable cause is required for any and all subpoenas.
    Read up on "reasonableness standard" and subpoenas and get back to me.

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    Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    We would benefit from having more people in our government who are more concerned about upholding the law than the next election cycle.
    For that to happen.

    We would need to elect people based on their actions and goals rather than who has the most noticeable (read: funded) campaign.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    I believe that if you do a little looking around you'll find that subpoenas are pretty much always subject to a "reasonableness" standard. I'd recommend starting with Boyd v US
    And I believe if you re-read the thread, you'll find that you are attacking a straw man here since the exact phrasing being discussed was probable cause.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    And I believe if you re-read the thread, you'll find that you are attacking a straw man here since the exact phrasing being discussed was probable cause.
    Just because you are discussing probable cause doesn't mean that it's relevant to the topic at hand. Like I sad at the start, subpoenas are subject to "reasonableness" and warrants to "probable cause. That's the whole reason I brought up both clauses of the 4th Amendment.

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