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Thread: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons, internal communications

  1. #11
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    Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    First, here is an actual news story as opposed the the opinion piece you posted: City subpoenas pastors' sermons in equal rights ordinance case - Houston Chronicle

    Not sure how freedom of speech or religion is relevant here since the subpoena only asks for publicly made comments of the churches. Kinda hard to claim suppression of speech to ask what they already said in public.

    Your opinion piece is also dishonest. The language about bathroom usage was removed before the bill was passed, and was always specific to transgender people, not any one: Mayor drops bathroom provision from nondiscrimination ordinance - Houston Chronicle
    Why would the city want or need transcripts of sermons discussing homosexuality?

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    Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Document please.

    Amendment IV

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
    Sadly, I'm not surprised that someone would be unfamiliar with this.

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    Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

    The Mayor of Houston is a female Democrat. For what it's worth...../

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    Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The way both sides in a legal case compile evidence is through the use of subpoenas. You did not know that?
    My question is intended to find out how any words spoken in a church can be the basis of any discrimination case. Actions? Perhaps. Do you often ignore questions when responding to someone?
    People in Dubai don't like the Flintstones but people in Abu Dhabi do

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    Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Dunno why. Could be as simple as a rumor that one church was suggesting falsifying petition signatures. No one is saying, nor are they likely to. A subpoena is not an accusation of wrongdoing, it is not intimidation as suggested, and in fact the process to subpoena documents for any court cases is pretty trivial and done in pretty much all civil cases or legal cases where facts are disputed. If one side thinks the documents could, possibly, help there case, they will subpoena them.
    The purpose of the subpoenas is determine if both the pastors and the congregants were aware of the law when they gathered and submitted the signatures. We already know that at least one of these pastors provided training to his congregation. What the City Attorney can derive from that is that the congregants knowingly gathered invalid signatures and the pastors knowingly submitted a petition in which over half the signatures were invalid which could both be crimes. Anyway, I don't see how the pastors have any legal ground to stand on in this case. Their legal argument basically amounts to 'no take backsies' and the first thing the City Attorney is going to do is ask for dismissal since they know they don't have enough valid signatures to re-instate the petition.

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    My question is intended to find out how any words spoken in a church can be the basis of any discrimination case. Actions? Perhaps. Do you often ignore questions when responding to someone?
    This isn't a discrimination case.
    Last edited by Napoleon; 10-14-14 at 10:48 PM.

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    Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

    Redress already elbow-dropped this piece of crap of an article but I just wanted to point and laugh at this part:

    Tony Perkins, the head of the Family Research Council, said pastors around the nation should rally around the Houston ministers.

    “The state is breaching the wall of separation between church and state,” Perkins told me. ‘Pastors need to step forward and challenge this across the country. I’d like to see literally thousands of pastors after they read this story begin to challenge government authorities – to dare them to come into their churches and demand their sermons.”

    Because this:
    Religious right leader ties U.S. 'secularism' to Islamic State | MSNBC

    Where there is no vision, the people perish. Hello, this is Tony Perkins with the Family Research Council in Washington. Americans have been shocked to see the brutality and barbarism of the Islamic militants of ISIS, and they've been stunned by the revelations that radicalized Americans have joined their ranks and taken up their cause. Pundits and politicians alike have publicly pondered the question as to how young Americans can be sucked into such an evil venture. While it may be troubling, the answer is not hard. Radical secularism that has driven the defining characteristics of our Western culture, our Judeo-Christian heritage, from our schools, our entertainment and even our government has left in its place a void, a vacuum. And we should know from experience that a vacuum will be filled by something. Without a creedal vision that a society can unify around, the people, the nation, will perish. Unless we are content to allow ISIS or some other radical belief system to fill the void left by secularism, we must rediscover America's founding, Christ-centered vision. - See more at: Perkins: Separation Of Church And State Helps ISIS | Right Wing Watch
    Separation of Church and State, apparently, only should go one way.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

    I hope the courts rule in favor of the churches. Mainly just subscribing to the thread but also stating which side of the line I am on. I am transgender and support the churches rights to preach what they believe as long as it isnt telling people to go out and hurt other people and the churches shouldnt have to provide their sermons.

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    Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Document please.
    Are you serious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Are you serious?
    https://ssd.eff.org/your-computer/govt/subpoenas

    Subpoenas are issued under a much lower standard than the probable cause standard used for search warrants. A subpoena can be used so long as there is any reasonable possibility that the materials or testimony sought will produce information relevant to the general subject of the investigation.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Houston Mayor orders pastors to turn over sermons about gays, gender and... the m

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Sadly, I'm not surprised that someone would be unfamiliar with this.
    It's called, "tyranny". Liberal tyranny, to be more precise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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