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Ohio to lose Jeep after all

Good lord, horrible idea to make Jeeps out of aluminum. A jeep used for rugged terrain increases cracking potential. That alone should be enough to dissuade this idiotic idea.
 
Fishstyx said:
Good lord, horrible idea to make Jeeps out of aluminum. A jeep used for rugged terrain increases cracking potential. That alone should be enough to dissuade this idiotic idea.
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I was wondering about that as well. I guess they have to because of the new fuel standards. The F-150 will be aluminum as well. Doesn't sound safe does it?
 
pilot16 said:
I was wondering about that as well. I guess they have to because of the new fuel standards. The F-150 will be aluminum as well. Doesn't sound safe does it?
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Normal driving, it should be fine. But the abuse Jeeps are supposedly made to take, I'd question it.

Not crazy at all about the corrosive aspect of aluminum. Steel will generally corrode slowly with a good coating, aluminum can actually corrode under any coating if there are slight imperfections in the aluminum or metal particulates in the paint.
 
Fishstyx said:
Normal driving, it should be fine. But the abuse Jeeps are supposedly made to take, I'd question it.

Not crazy at all about the corrosive aspect of aluminum. Steel will generally corrode slowly with a good coating, aluminum can actually corrode under any coating if there are slight imperfections in the aluminum or metal particulates in the paint.
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Meh, Aircraft are made out of Aluminum.

There are ways to protect it from corrosion
 
Fishstyx said:
Good lord, horrible idea to make Jeeps out of aluminum. A jeep used for rugged terrain increases cracking potential. That alone should be enough to dissuade this idiotic idea.
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There are Aluminum jeep bodies on the aftermarket. Don't hear much about cracking.
 
Fenton said:
Meh, Aircraft are made out of Aluminum.

There are ways to protect it from corrosion
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Aircraft are much better maintained then cars as well as no where close to the mass production level.
 
Fishstyx said:
Normal driving, it should be fine. But the abuse Jeeps are supposedly made to take, I'd question it.

Not crazy at all about the corrosive aspect of aluminum. Steel will generally corrode slowly with a good coating, aluminum can actually corrode under any coating if there are slight imperfections in the aluminum or metal particulates in the paint.
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Take what? With out thousands in aftermarket up grades, Jeeps are junk. Dana 30 and 35 axles bend at the housings, engines are weak at best, trans is weak, usually have highway gearing from the factory at 3.07.
Jeeps are show off vehicles now. You want a good jeep, spend some money on tools first and build one.
 
pilot16 said:
It seems Romney may have been right about something. Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne surprised everyone by announcing that the Jeep Wrangler would no longer be made in Toledo.

Toledo Nervously Awaiting Fate of Beloved Jeep - ABC News
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Well, you should read the article:

The assembly complex in Toledo, which employs about 6,000 workers, isn't in danger of shutting down even if the Wrangler goes away. It still makes the more-citified, more family-friendly Jeep Cherokee, and Marchionne said the employment level would be kept steady, most likely by bringing in a new vehicle to build.
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No lost jobs. No jobs going to China. Just can't afford to completely rework an old plant, so going to move one line somewhere else in the US.
 
One thing the article didn't say is where the manufacturing plant will be located to. Will this be another case of outsourcing?
 
Fishstyx said:
Good lord, horrible idea to make Jeeps out of aluminum. A jeep used for rugged terrain increases cracking potential. That alone should be enough to dissuade this idiotic idea.
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Supposedly the insurance cost for aluminum body paneled vehicles is about 10% higher due to increased repair cost.
 
hope that nobody loses a job over this. not sure about the aluminum thing, but i'm sure that they will take it into account. people really put jeeps through the wringer, so it's going to have to be able to handle that.

of course, for quite a while, they didn't rust proof the frame, so they do occasionally fail to take something into account. by the time i got my frame redone this past summer, it had rusted enough that it was broken in one place. took a lot of welding. it's rust proofed now, too.

i wonder where they will move production to. probably a "right to work" state so that they can undercut the union. either way, it's kind of sad. i've invested enough in my own 1998 Wrangler that i doubt i'll ever need to buy another one, though.
 
Redress said:
Well, you should read the article:

No lost jobs. No jobs going to China. Just can't afford to completely rework an old plant, so going to move one line somewhere else in the US.
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:raises eyebrow:

Plant Not Shutting Down =/= No Lost Jobs, if they are shifting an assembly line elsewhere, the people who were working on that line presumably aren't going to remain on the rolls to come in every day and do nothing.
 
cpwill said:
:raises eyebrow:

Plant Not Shutting Down =/= No Lost Jobs, if they are shifting an assembly line elsewhere, the people who were working on that line presumably aren't going to remain on the rolls to come in every day and do nothing.
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If Jeep does do that then the Jeep Renegade would most likely take it's place as it is not currently being built in the US. So if European and US sales of the Renegade are high enough a third plant in the US to make it would be ideal. Especially considering it will be made in Italy and shipped to the US ( a higher cost option)
 
cpwill said:
:raises eyebrow:

Plant Not Shutting Down =/= No Lost Jobs, if they are shifting an assembly line elsewhere, the people who were working on that line presumably aren't going to remain on the rolls to come in every day and do nothing.
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Should have read the article. Most likely shifting another line in, same workforce, just making something other than a Wrangler. All explained in the source article.
 
SMTA said:
Supposedly the insurance cost for aluminum body paneled vehicles is about 10% higher due to increased repair cost.
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Most likely, since oem recommends that any aluminum frame rail/apron be replaced whenever damaged. This has been the case with BMW and Audi for a few years now. So, a rail that would normally be straightened and repaired, now needs to be replaced. Not to mention that the shop has to have a completely separate aluminum work area to prevent contamination. Did I mention that the rails must be glued and riveted, not welded? Oh, and they have to be a certified repair shop, at a cost of around $20k. Yeah, might cost a bit more to insure.
 
pilot16 said:
I was wondering about that as well. I guess they have to because of the new fuel standards. The F-150 will be aluminum as well. Doesn't sound safe does it?
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It can be made safely, and they are more fuel efficient, but there is another issue. Aluminum block engines aren't new. The 1971 Chevy Vega had an aluminum block engine, as did a few other cars of that era. The problem with aluminum blocks is that aluminum has a lower melting point than cast iron. Badly overheat a car that has an aluminum block engine, and the result is a warped engine..... Something as simple as a broken radiator hose can result in a total loss, and it would not be covered by insurance, or even by extended warranties. In addition, due to constant heat caused by friction and the firing of cylinders, cars with aluminum blocks last considerably less longer than cars with cast iron blocks. Typical lifetime of an aluminum block car in the 1970's was about 70k miles. No turning over the odometer in those lemons.
 
pilot16 said:
It seems Romney may have been right about something. Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne surprised everyone by announcing that the Jeep Wrangler would no longer be made in Toledo.

Toledo Nervously Awaiting Fate of Beloved Jeep - ABC News
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No. Romney campaign ads warned Ohio voters that Jeep was moving its production to China. Of course, it was a stupid, implausible suggestion at the time, but it did scare some Ohio voters until the Romney campaign lie was exposed, likely costing him any chance at the state, and thus any chance at being elected in 2012. Jeep is not now, nor was it ever moving production to China. So Romney is still not right.

Chrysler refutes Romney

The article suggests that Wrangler production may be moved elsewhere and will be substantially replaced by Cherokee production and, perhaps another model.
 
Mycroft said:
One thing the article didn't say is where the manufacturing plant will be located to. Will this be another case of outsourcing?
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Yes. But you have to understand, we are discussion aluminum and not American jobs ;)
 
upsideguy said:
No. Romney campaign ads warned Ohio voters that Jeep was moving its production to China. Of course, it was a stupid, implausible suggestion at the time, but it did scare some Ohio voters until the Romney campaign lie was exposed, likely costing him any chance at the state, and thus any chance at being elected in 2012. Jeep is not now, nor was it ever moving production to China. So Romney is still not right.

Chrysler refutes Romney

The article suggests that Wrangler production may be moved elsewhere and will be substantially replaced by Cherokee production and, perhaps another model.
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Care to tell us where the parts are made? What about Marchionne's lies not having the Jeep built outside Toledo?
 
I see a lot of governments here in Canada/Ontario and in various US States propping up pretty much all segments of the North American auto industry and it frosts my ass. My tax dollars and the tax dollars of tens of millions of other people are being spent to artificially support an auto industry that is bloated with over paid and over benefited employees and big money unions and to top it off, my tax dollars are used to make the new car I buy more expensive at the dealership than it would be if there was no tax money goosing the industry and the product price.

Let the auto industry live or die on its own merits. Let the auto industry build cars that people want and can readily afford. And do this by eliminating all government automotive welfare. Enough already!!
 
Redress said:
Should have read the article. Most likely shifting another line in, same workforce, just making something other than a Wrangler. All explained in the source article.
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Article says "hopefully" they will get another line. Not an absolute though. Hence why the article is titled "Toledo nervously awaits the fate of their beloved Jeep." Chrysler could close that half down and layoff 4,000 workers if they wanted to. Hopefully they wont but they could.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
If Jeep does do that then the Jeep Renegade would most likely take it's place as it is not currently being built in the US. So if European and US sales of the Renegade are high enough a third plant in the US to make it would be ideal. Especially considering it will be made in Italy and shipped to the US ( a higher cost option)
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"If" and "most likely" are just lib speak for 'I don't want to address that"....
 
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