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Thread: Alaska ban on same-sex marriage ruled unconstitutional

  1. #201
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    Re: Alaska ban on same-sex marriage ruled unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Whether the state does or does not endorse homosexual marriages has no bearing on your freedom. Freedom has nothing to do with something others have to give you and state sanctioned marriage is a concession from the state and it's no restriction of your freedom if you don't have it. Anyone that considers not being married to be a restriction of their freedom is a little nuts, anyway.
    Yes is does have a bearing on your freedom. It has a bearing for example on your financial situation compared to a heterosexual couple in an equally committed relationship. It has bearing on your freedom to adopt and raise children compared to a heterosexual person. Furthermore, heterosexual couples do not have to endure the comments of people that they should be happy not to be locked up for having a relationship/sex, you for example did say that about gay couples in this thread. Then there are restrictions on medical decisions, healthcare, mortgages, loans, housing, contracts, etc. etc. etc. that can be simply avoided by being married, just like it is with heterosexual couples.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Alaska ban on same-sex marriage ruled unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Not at all. I think the state has the right to create tax benefits for relationships that it wants to encourage without being forced to give that incentive to relationships it doesn't not want to endorse. Our state doesn't see the point in endorsing homosexual marriage and giving incentives to promote them, so it doesn't.
    All men are created equal. That is what the preamble says, not some people are created more equal than others and they just have to accept that.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

  3. #203
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Alaska ban on same-sex marriage ruled unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    And I respect your right to your own opinion even though you don't have a monopoly on defining conservative values, either. My respect for homosexual relationships isn't the issue and your relationship is your business. Only when people want the state to sanction their relationship does that become their business - not the relationship; just the sanction. And with homosexual marriage being a novel concept only realized for the first time in modern history since 2001, I think it's more than a little unreasonable for anyone to think that failure to embrace it must be purely because of bigotry or a desire to oppress anyone. It's a social experiment so novel that it will take some time for everyone to get used to it. Where it takes us is anyone's guess. Will the whole world end up promoting homosexual marriages? Will it be a mistake that we rescind? Will it be something that turns out to be so insignificant that we'll all wonder what the fuss was about? No one knows.
    no one has to embrace it they just have to stop denying people equal rights

    people still dont embrace woman, minority rights and interracial marriage, that's meanignless

    anybody standing in the way that wants to ACTIVELY FIGHT AGAINST it, is in fact a bigot and or against equal rights . . that much is crystal clear, theres no other logical arguments
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    Re: Alaska ban on same-sex marriage ruled unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    The "homosexuality is a race" argument fails supremely.
    Neither is heterosexual. And that "race" gets preferential treatment from the government when it comes to taxes.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Alaska ban on same-sex marriage ruled unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    no one has to embrace it they just have to stop denying people equal rights

    people still dont embrace woman, minority rights and interracial marriage, that's meanignless

    anybody standing in the way that wants to ACTIVELY FIGHT AGAINST it, is in fact a bigot and or against equal rights . . that much is crystal clear, theres no other logical arguments
    Well, I can't say that there ARE no other logical arguments, but I haven't seen any, and PapaBull hasn't mentioned any, despite being asked to provide them. And when the issue goes in front of the courts, there are no 'logical' arguments presented then either - just appeals to tradition and/or religion.

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    Re: Alaska ban on same-sex marriage ruled unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I think you're right on point, actually.

    I think the real reason why homosexuals are demanding homosexual marriage has nothing whatsoever to do with equal rights because they already have equal rights. They are pursuing the homosexual marriage agenda for two primary reasons.

    1. To poke a stick in the eye of Christians and Christianity
    2. To be able to say that homosexuality is normal

    Civil Unions wouldn't do those two things even if they conveyed every benefit that marriage does to homosexual couples. Therefore, civil unions were unacceptable. It had nothing at all to do with rights. This issue has been driven by homosexual militants. Most homosexuals I've know have had no interest in marriage for the sake of marriage. Many have told me that their homosexual lifestyle was about eschewing the "normal" model of marriage and kids.

    What the long term consequences will be, no one knows because no society that endorsed homosexuality has stood the test of time and so we have no example to take a lesson from. But I think it's clear to see that in our country, the homosexuals will prevail. How it changes society in this country is something we can only guess about.
    Yes, why would gays want to walk down the aisle and promise eternal love for one another at the alter. I cannot imagine why they would except of course to irritate those annoying religious people who think they are so high and mighty that they should be allowed to keep the feeling of wedded bliss purely to themselves.

    The problem is that in the US the simple civil act of getting married has been pulled into the religious universe. In the US marriage has been made into a religious ceremony when it ought to be a civil one. It is a contract of sort and it is ridiculous that you should want to make that contract valid by the signature/stamp of approval of a priest.

    Make marriage a civil act in which 2 people stand in front of a judge or a dedicated government employee in which they are legally bound into matrimony. Then, for people who are religiously inflicted/of religious beliefs, can go down to their local church and perform a religious bond with no legal but purely spiritual and religious implications.

    That way religious folks can keep their religious wedding ceremony intact and gays can have the same civil rights as straight people have.

    And we have had gay marriage for 13 plus years and it has not changed anything to the status of the institute of marriage.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Alaska ban on same-sex marriage ruled unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Thank you for sharing that stupid assumption with me. I'm not religious. You don't have to be religious to acknowledge that the desire to poke a stick in the eye of Christians is one of the primary motivations for homosexuals demanding marriage instead of civil unions. You just have to be honest and willing to call things the way they really are.
    It has nothing to do with those stupid religious people who take offense at everything, it has to do with the simple fact that it should not be necessary for gays to make do with civil unions when there is no reason whatsoever for them to not be included in the institute of marriage. None whatsoever.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Alaska ban on same-sex marriage ruled unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Well, I can't say that there ARE no other logical arguments, but I haven't seen any, and PapaBull hasn't mentioned any, despite being asked to provide them. And when the issue goes in front of the courts, there are no 'logical' arguments presented then either - just appeals to tradition and/or religion.
    well I guess thats a good point, maybe there is one out there lol
    but you are right NONE have been presented

    i have two threads here asking for reason and nobody could ever do it.
    the first one was closed because it approached 2000 posts and they shut them down around then, Part II goes to 1200+ posts. and still NOT one legitimate recent to stop equal rights.
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    Re: Alaska ban on same-sex marriage ruled unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    You keep trying to frame it as an equal rights issue and it isn't.
    Well, but it is an equal rights issue, gays should not have to settle for civil unions.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Alaska ban on same-sex marriage ruled unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    All men are created equal. That is what the preamble says, not some people are created more equal than others and they just have to accept that.
    Equality isn't the issue. No one is barred from marriage because they're a homosexual. Homosexuals have all the rights everyone else has.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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