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Thread: Alaska ban on same-sex marriage ruled unconstitutional

  1. #181
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    Re: Alaska ban on same-sex marriage ruled unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    If this conversation were taking place in 1965, it would be very much about race. Your sentiments mirror those who were against interracial marriage. Conservatives fought it right up until 1967 when the Supreme Court invalidated laws prohibiting interracial marriage.
    And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. This isn't 1965. This isn't about race. Homosexuality is not a race.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Alaska ban on same-sex marriage ruled unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I know. That's really the crux of it. It's not about equal rights for people. It's about demanding society consider their relationships to be sanctioned just like heterosexual relationships. I just don't believe the state has to sanction them if the state doesn't want to sanction them. Heterosexual family units make perfect sense. Homosexual "family units" don't. I think it's unrealistic to expect society to consider them both to be the same.
    But sometimes homosexual "family units" do make "perfect sense." If you have a gay brother (as do I), you must know of gay couples with adopted, or even biological, children. It makes perfect sense for the couple to marry and officially take responsibility for the child(ren), be entitled to make decisions on their behalf, for the same reasons straight couples marry. And why wouldn't it make "perfect sense" for a childless gay couple to get married for the same reasons many childless straight couples get married? My mother (a widow) is 76, and I fully expect her to marry her boyfriend (a widower) who is a friend from childhood and also 76. If that makes 'perfect sense' to sanction (and it does!), so does it make perfect sense to sanction a gay couple with no children.

  3. #183
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    Re: Alaska ban on same-sex marriage ruled unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I am guessing you belong to an older generation. Many older gay activists were sexual liberationists which probably gave rise to your particular perspective of gay rights activists. There is nothing "sudden." Younger gay folks came into a world that was more accepting of homosexuality and they have saught stable unions. Rather than having to fight for the privacy and legitimacy of their sex lives they have been able to fight for their relationships. They generally have different values than the older generation.
    I'm over 50 and I'm sure that you are right about my age having a bearing on my perspective and opinions. Homosexual marriage was a ridiculous idea clear up until sometime after 2000. Then somehow it seemed like overnight, it became all the rage as the PC crusade du jour.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Alaska ban on same-sex marriage ruled unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Only to the detriment of the far-right evangelicals who would like to get the US government off of Wall Street's back and into every American bedroom.

    That's not going to happen. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.

    Wait and see.
    well, I am not quite sure that it is only far right evangelicals that find the idea of gay marriage rather off the wall. Since the beginning of the last century my family has been strongly equal rights for Blacks, gays and other minorities. But I must say that I can hardly see marriage something that fits for gays' equality. As a matter of fact, I believe that if gays are to have it, we should take it out of the government portfolio and privatize it.

  5. #185
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    Re: Alaska ban on same-sex marriage ruled unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    We disagree. The justices of the supreme court disagree with each other on this, too. Homosexuals already have equal rights. No one is barred from marriage because they are homosexual. If you don't want to marry someone of the opposite sex, you don't really want to be married. You want to be in some other sort of a relationship but you don't want MARRIAGE. And it's not a violation of your rights that you can't dictate to the state what sorts of relationships they must sanction as marriage.

    So that's that. You have your opinion. I have mine. And it's a pitched battle across the country. I think eventually the homosexuals will win this one but I think it's not because people think that homosexual marriage is a good thing for this country. I think they're just ready to acquiesce and move on to more important issues. I can relate to that. I don't think this is anywhere near the most important issue facing this country, either.
    You can't see the forest through the trees. How many straight couples jump into marriage realizing it wasn't meant to be or just get hitched on a lark? Tons, divorce rates should be a clue. Two people truly love one another(straight or gay) that want to take that next step into marriage do so because they wan't to seal the deal and show their commitment. If it's meant to be, it will be. Gays still have the right to marry if it works out or not. Two male close friends of mine have been a couple since 1978. They always wanted to be married and have that marriage be recognized the same as a straight couple. Last year they were married in New York, and good for them. You're really making a mountain out of a molehill here.
    Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can sit in a boat, drinking beer all day while you fool around with his Woman.

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    Re: Alaska ban on same-sex marriage ruled unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    But sometimes homosexual "family units" do make "perfect sense." If you have a gay brother (as do I), you must know of gay couples with adopted, or even biological, children. It makes perfect sense for the couple to marry and officially take responsibility for the child(ren), be entitled to make decisions on their behalf, for the same reasons straight couples marry. And why wouldn't it make "perfect sense" for a childless gay couple to get married for the same reasons many childless straight couples get married? My mother (a widow) is 76, and I fully expect her to marry her boyfriend (a widower) who is a friend from childhood and also 76. If that makes 'perfect sense' to sanction (and it does!), so does it make perfect sense to sanction a gay couple with no children.
    Actually, I don't know of any homosexual couples with adopted children. I know there are some, but I don't know them. I don't see the sense in male/male or female/female relationships being considered "marriage". That's not what marriage is. Not in my state and not in most of the world. And not anywhere until 2001 when Canada hosted the very first homosexual marriages in modern times. For the life of me, I don't know what got into this country to want to be on the cutting edge of liberal social re-engineering in such a way. I always considered this country to be a conservative country but it seems we're actually trying to push ahead of Europe to take the lead in radical social liberalism. I think it's a really bad mistake that we aren't dancing with the babe that brought us to the ball and that babe is social and economic conservatism.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  7. #187
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    Re: Alaska ban on same-sex marriage ruled unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    1.)The fact that you posted something I didn't say and don't agree with is all the proof necessary that your English to Strawman translator is working just as good as it always does.
    1.) you did say it
    2.) denying that you agree with it doesnt change the facts

    would you like proof?

    answer these simply questions

    should SSM be equal to OSM? yes or no?
    do you want SSM to be equal to OSM? yes or no?
    is marriage a right? yes or no?
    do gays currently have equal rights in all the states? yes or no?

    I bet you dodge the questions or deflect

    so once again all you have to do is simply post ONE fact that shows I posted a straw man, and dont forget the questions
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  8. #188
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    Re: Alaska ban on same-sex marriage ruled unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    You can't see the forest through the trees. How many straight couples jump into marriage realizing it wasn't meant to be or just get hitched on a lark? Tons, divorce rates should be a clue. Two people truly love one another(straight or gay) that want to take that next step into marriage do so because they wan't to seal the deal and show their commitment. If it's meant to be, it will be. Gays still have the right to marry if it works out or not. Two male close friends of mine have been a couple since 1978. They always wanted to be married and have that marriage be recognized the same as a straight couple. Last year they were married in New York, and good for them. You're really making a mountain out of a molehill here.
    I'll go along with the last statement. I think we're all making mountains out of molehills here. I don't think homosexual marriage is really a huge issue for this country despite how much attention it's gotten. While I'm solid in my opinion, the weight of the issue isn't one of great importance. That's probably one of the reasons why the Supreme Court isn't stepping in to legislate from the bench. They don't see this as anything but a molehill doing a mountain impersonation, either.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Alaska ban on same-sex marriage ruled unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Actually, I don't know of any homosexual couples with adopted children. I know there are some, but I don't know them. I don't see the sense in male/male or female/female relationships being considered "marriage". That's not what marriage is. Not in my state and not in most of the world. And not anywhere until 2001 when Canada hosted the very first homosexual marriages in modern times. For the life of me, I don't know what got into this country to want to be on the cutting edge of liberal social re-engineering in such a way. I always considered this country to be a conservative country but it seems we're actually trying to push ahead of Europe to take the lead in radical social liberalism. I think it's a really bad mistake that we aren't dancing with the babe that brought us to the ball and that babe is social and economic conservatism.
    It was conservatives that fought against child labor laws, Women's suffrage, slavery, interracial marriage and civil rights. They were on the wrong side of history then and they are on the wrong side of history tpday with SSM.
    Last edited by HenryChinaski; 10-13-14 at 03:54 PM.
    Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can sit in a boat, drinking beer all day while you fool around with his Woman.

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    Re: Alaska ban on same-sex marriage ruled unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    well, I am not quite sure that it is only far right evangelicals that find the idea of gay marriage rather off the wall. Since the beginning of the last century my family has been strongly equal rights for Blacks, gays and other minorities. But I must say that I can hardly see marriage something that fits for gays' equality. As a matter of fact, I believe that if gays are to have it, we should take it out of the government portfolio and privatize it.
    That's ridiculous. Reminds me of the childhood saying, "Cutting off your nose off to spite your face...."

    Whether government should recognize straight marriages has literally NOTHING to do with gay marriage.

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