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Thread: Breach of protocol led to Ebola outbreak

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    Re: Breach of protocol led to Ebola outbreak

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    I more or less agree but anyone from that region should be allowed into America if they pass a supervised 21 day isolation (which apparently is the length of time that the virus incubates) before leaving the west African region in question.

    I realize not many people can afford to do that.

    But those that can should not be kept out of America if they offer no health threat.
    3 weeks out of America, vs a pandemic. This is where the most liberal of us OUGHT to be conservative. Beyond that, the CDC has let us down, and we ALREADY know our medical system can let us down (I am constantly humbled by this) so why take the risk?

    Please answer thoughtfully. I am truly curious what those outside of medicine and history think-not because I respect it (I am not referring to you) but because it matters anyway.

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    Re: Breach of protocol led to Ebola outbreak

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurmugeon View Post
    It is a huge advantage to the United States and its citizens to continue to play a role in assisting those in Western Africa to fight Ebola and develop technology to deal with the disease.

    1st world countries have a small set of advantages over African societies due to:

    * Better general health and nutrition
    * Better hospital care and vital health support in IV fluids, secondary infect anti-biotics, crash carts and vitals monitors
    * Better education in germ theory and methods of block contagion ( it seems this is now true only for SOME Americans )
    * Better organization of military and police to enforce quarantines when needed
    * Better Radio and Telecom to spread word of an outbreak
    * Better personal hygiene and fresh water sources
    * Cultural practices less likely to spread disease

    But we also have areas of our society which leave U.S. MORE vulnerable to Ebola:

    * A much more mobile society
    * A high population density society ( except for Nigeria )
    * A much more Politically Correct Society


    This later, are likely to prove far more deadly to 1st world countries, than any advantage by the former.

    Our advantages only work if the percentage of our population which is infected stays below a threshold were we can apply things like IV Fluids.



    But we WON'T suffer Ebola as a 3rd world country.

    We are a 1st world country, which means we are a much, much more mobile society. We will suffer Ebola like a 1st World Country.

    That means if Ebola goes over a threshold of number of simultaneous cases, it will exceed our ability to use advanced medicine to deal with the outbreak, and overload our medical system.

    The disease will then leverage off of our higher mobility, and we will suffer as a 1st world nation, a much, much higher level of rate of spread, percentage of infected, and mortality rate.

    Ebola is, in the long term, if we are not very careful, a much bigger risk to America or any 1st world country, than it is to a third world country!

    ---------------------------

    We are not living in Isolation, and never will be able to keep Ebola from our country completely.

    Staying involved in the battle against Ebola in Africa, gives U.S. the opportunity to develop : Immunizations, Cures, Treatment Protocols, Study methods of transmission...

    We Benefit greatly from staying involved, we just need to do it CAREFULLY!

    We are NOT doing it Carefully right now, we are doing Politically Correctly!

    -
    Dude, dont make me tell of the tales from west africa. Truly there are parts so backwards they will smack you in the brain. Please dont break this down like that. I have provided medical care for the poorest of the poor from africa, the ME, Asia, Europe, South America, Mexico, and so on. I have landed in Cessnas in 3rd world runways on the sides of mountains.

    This isn't the back of a baseball card. Dont read it that way.

    Everything you are now becoming aware of I think of every god damn day.

    Truly every day. And Im not hating-Im saying its effin important.

    Please realize-the messenger isnt important. Mobile hurts us. Think. I can tell you how.
    Last edited by US Conservative; 10-14-14 at 06:21 AM.

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    Re: Breach of protocol led to Ebola outbreak

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    3 weeks out of America, vs a pandemic. This is where the most liberal of us OUGHT to be conservative. Beyond that, the CDC has let us down, and we ALREADY know our medical system can let us down (I am constantly humbled by this) so why take the risk?

    Please answer thoughtfully. I am truly curious what those outside of medicine and history think-not because I respect it (I am not referring to you) but because it matters anyway.
    Life is full of risk, there is no guarantee.

    '"People are not contagious until they're symptomatic," said David Lakey, M.D. / Commissioner, Texas Department of State Health Services.

    That means even if someone is exposed to the virus, if they're not vomiting, or suffering from high fever and diarrhea, doctors say they won't spread the disease to others. That's because Ebola has a 21-day incubation period.

    "If somebody goes that 21 days and doesn't have symptoms then they're not going to be infected with the virus," said Lakey.'


    http://www.kvue.com/story/news/healt...bola/17214311/

    If you don't agree with this, please take it up with the doctor that said this.


    And I am neither con nor lib; dem nor rep - btw.
    Last edited by DA60; 10-14-14 at 06:26 AM.

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    Re: Breach of protocol led to Ebola outbreak

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    I have no idea what you are talking about.

    The incubation time IS 21 days. If after that period of time, you do not show symptoms, then you DO NOT have Ebola virus.

    And you better hope it is right, because that is (to my knowledge) what U.S. based hospitals are using when they suspect a person might have Ebola. But if you really want to be safe, make it a month.

    If it is good enough for American doctors, it should be good enough for you.


    And I am neither con nor lib; dem nor rep - btw.
    Try and understand, its not the indian, its the arrow.

    I know, and you know the reported data.

    The data smacks us around like its cool.

    It ALWAYS will, more so with viruses than bacteria.

    Bacteria is scary. Viruses will own you.

    Try and consider what the differences are, there and here.

    As I said, with a demonstrably failed immigration and disease control "govt entity" realize where you are.

    Look around, robot (your avatar).

    See the sky.

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    Re: Breach of protocol led to Ebola outbreak

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Life is full of risk, there is no guarantee.

    '"People are not contagious until they're symptomatic," said David Lakey, M.D. / Commissioner, Texas Department of State Health Services.

    That means even if someone is exposed to the virus, if they're not vomiting, or suffering from high fever and diarrhea, doctors say they won't spread the disease to others. That's because Ebola has a 21-day incubation period.

    "If somebody goes that 21 days and doesn't have symptoms then they're not going to be infected with the virus," said Lakey.'


    Separating facts from fears regarding Ebola

    If you don't agree with this, please take it up with the doctor that said this.


    And I am neither con nor lib; dem nor rep - btw.
    '"People are not contagious until they're symptomatic," said David Lakey, M.D. / Commissioner, Texas Department of State Health Services.

    Dude, watch how the best science smacks you with reality.

    SYMPTOMATIC is SUBJECTIVE. SIGNS ARE NOT.

    Please dont feel you know, because you dont.

    This is why smart cats are in medicine (not saying me) , because its effin hard.

    Dont hang this on one mans quote-its too important.

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    Re: Breach of protocol led to Ebola outbreak

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Try and understand, its not the indian, its the arrow.

    I know, and you know the reported data.

    The data smacks us around like its cool.

    It ALWAYS will, more so with viruses than bacteria.

    Bacteria is scary. Viruses will own you.

    Try and consider what the differences are, there and here.

    As I said, with a demonstrably failed immigration and disease control "govt entity" realize where you are.

    Look around, robot (your avatar).

    See the sky.
    I changed my post, now it has David Lakey, M.D. / Commissioner, Texas Department of State Health Services saying 21 days is good enough.

    Like I said, life is full of risks. So long as I take sensible precautions, I am more-or-less cool with whatever happens to me.


    You want to worry about it, fine.

    Not me.


    Good day.

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    Re: Breach of protocol led to Ebola outbreak

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    I changed my post, now it has David Lakey, M.D. / Commissioner, Texas Department of State Health Services saying 21 days is good enough.

    Like I said, life is full of risks. So long as I take sensible precautions, I am more-or-less cool with whatever happens to me.


    You want to worry about it, fine.

    Not me.


    Good day.
    You see "worry" as stats on a website.

    I see them every day in person. And I see the battles they fight.

    One day, you will know.

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    Re: Breach of protocol led to Ebola outbreak

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    By far compared to what? It hasn't been compared to anything else from what I've read.
    That's kind of the point. No viable alternative has been suggested (by anyone who knows what they're talking about). Nobody knows exactly what happens but given what we do know, some kind of mistake or individual failure of the equipment seems most likely.

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Maybe their protocol needs to be looked at if it's that easy to breach. They talk about other people treated her, but how much contact did they actually have.
    I've absolutely no doubt that they're looking very carefully at their procedures and equipment, though it's obviously difficult if they don't know exactly what went wrong. I question "easy to breach" presumption though. There will have been multiple people working closely with a patient in these circumstances so if it were easy, more than one would have been affected. With only one example though, it's going to be somewhere between an uncommon issue or a truly freak accident.

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    What is the OP suggesting? I didn't see any.
    The OP suggested the general public is "advised to be more cautious". I was after more details on what they think that advice should be.

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I'm suggesting that if they don't know what they're doing, you'll never know about it till the **** hits the fan.
    I'd suggest the various people involved largely do know what they're doing but it's a complex and ever changing situation, resources are generally tight in a lot of areas (especially given the financial crisis) and, ultimately, human beings make mistakes. I don't think that's sufficient to expect an absolute disaster though. We've worked through worse than this.

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    Re: Breach of protocol led to Ebola outbreak

    Quote Originally Posted by HonestJoe View Post
    That's kind of the point. No viable alternative has been suggested (by anyone who knows what they're talking about). Nobody knows exactly what happens but given what we do know, some kind of mistake or individual failure of the equipment seems most likely.

    I've absolutely no doubt that they're looking very carefully at their procedures and equipment, though it's obviously difficult if they don't know exactly what went wrong. I question "easy to breach" presumption though. There will have been multiple people working closely with a patient in these circumstances so if it were easy, more than one would have been affected. With only one example though, it's going to be somewhere between an uncommon issue or a truly freak accident.

    The OP suggested the general public is "advised to be more cautious". I was after more details on what they think that advice should be.

    I'd suggest the various people involved largely do know what they're doing but it's a complex and ever changing situation, resources are generally tight in a lot of areas (especially given the financial crisis) and, ultimately, human beings make mistakes. I don't think that's sufficient to expect an absolute disaster though. We've worked through worse than this.
    The CDC budget has tripled since 2001, I don't think they're short on money.
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    Re: Breach of protocol led to Ebola outbreak

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Maybe we aren't sure about it's contagion possibilities. I've heard there's danger of it mutating. Maybe it can mutate into being airborne. But how on earth would one be more cautious in public? Only thing I can come up with is to stop wishing fellow parishioners peace during service with a handshake. And that's probably a good policy anyhow.
    (bold mine)

    Maybe it can. That being said, it's never been known to happen before. I'm pretty sure it's the movie Outbreak that's responsible for us crapping our pants over a possibility that has no known precedent.

    No virus that causes disease in humans has ever been known to mutate to change its mode of transmission. This means it is highly unlikely that Ebola has mutated to become airborne. It is, however, droplet-borne — and the distinction between the two is crucial.
    Read this to get a better understanding of how Ebola spreads | The Great Debate

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