Texas Health Care Worker Tests Positive for Ebola

Manc Skipper said:

Still more credible than your comment. Assuming for the moment that someone is rich enough to afford the airfare, Why would anyone pay twice the fare to bypass treatment in Europe (say) for the hideously expensive and more distant treatment offered in the USA?

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Because Europe is closing it's borders and they can get better healthcare in The United States.

Lursa said:

The latter. Most of these people are barely trained on these protocols and suits. They have little to no real life experience.

She either made a mistake putting on the gear or taking it off.

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Greetings, Lursa. :2wave:

When dealing with anything new, all of us are prone to making a mistake now and then. Does anyone think she deliberately put her life at risk? Perhaps they will now beef up training? Better late than never.

apdst said:

Because Europe is closing it's borders and they can get better healthcare in The United States.

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Only if they're very rich. Otherwise it's thirtyeight in the healthcare charts.

Manc Skipper said:

Only if they're very rich. Otherwise it's thirtyeight in the healthcare charts.

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How many ebola patients have the Brits saved? Exactly, zero.

Once again, The United States is going to save the world.

apdst said:

How many ebola patients have the Brits saved? Exactly, zero.

Once again, The United States is going to save the world.

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Your delusion of adequacy is boundless!

Samhain said:

Given that they were told "Don't touch the locals", the government's indication that they "won't be in direct contact" with the sick is laughable.

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It pretty much requires intimate contact....health care workers, family members. Bodily fluids must enter another person's body.

It's not impossible of course but it's not likely either. Most sick are not walking around, so that limits the chances even more to some that 'may' be incubating it, like the guy that got on the plane. (And no one on the plane is sick.)

Misterveritis said:

Right. LOL. Everything will be just fine, until it isn't.

What vital national interest compels sending 4000 American troops to ebola country.

Maybe you, Jetbbogie and enig can get together and describe the strategy for defeating ebola which includes sending our troops.

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Of course it's in our national interest. Our troops are there to protect our country. How well do you think our country could defend itself in a major epidemic from outside threats from Russia or China, for example? What would happen to our economy with even the *real* threat of an epidemic here? (btw, that is the greatest danger here IMO).

We 'fought terrorism over there so we wouldnt have to fight it here' and that is exactly what our involvement is over there. Helping to contain it. Helping them to prevent as much additional spread of the disease because the more that get infected, the greater the chance that it will become more virulent or even airborne.

They do this by helping to build and protect infrastructure. Transport and protect medical supplies. Providing security for our medical personnel and medical supplies (these supplies are regularly stolen and sold on the black market).

And they can be quarantined before returning to the US on American transport planes.

It's obvious you havent thought this through if you dont see how this serves vital American interests. Just a guess but I'd bet you havent thought about the economic issue at all.

Manc Skipper said:

Your delusion of adequacy is boundless!

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Don't worry. When things go to ****, we'll bail y'all out...again. We don't mind, because we know someone has to do it.

Lursa said:

It pretty much requires intimate contact....health care workers, family members. Bodily fluids must enter another person's body.

It's not impossible of course but it's not likely either. Most sick are not walking around, so that limits the chances even more to some that 'may' be incubating it, like the guy that got on the plane. (And no one on the plane is sick.)

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They don't have to enter another persons body directly, or immediately. The fluids can be transmitted from an object(clothing, seat, your hand, etc) for up to 3 days.

EnigmaO01 said:

You keep ignoring the fact that Ebola is not contagious when the carrier is not showing symptoms.

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You keep ignoring the fact that that's false.

A person has sufficient viral community in them to spill over into saliva and contaminate towels, doorknobs, sheets, clothing, etc. where it can remain for hours and can be picked up and transmitted to another person, or sufficient to directly contaminate someone with whom they have bodily contact, especially males with the disease in whom the virus survives well in semen, .. for close to around 24 hours prior to the person with the virus being cognizant that they're experiencing symptoms.

You're simply mimicking the CDC line, and although that's sufficient for general communication to the public of demarcations necessary to present a concept to the lower common denominator public consistently, it simply isn't the truth.

The truth here is as I stated it, and that's a truth relevant to many viruses as they grow in numbers in a body, such as the common cold and the flu.

Indeed, the most dangerous time of contagion is right before one starts to "feel" sick, as it is during that final 24 hours of "incubation" when the viral community is beginning to spill over into saliva and other mucous when a person doesn't yet experience the symptoms that they will go about their business as usual, going to school, work, church, etc., completely oblivious to the fact that they've begun to leave a trail of virus on things they touch that can be picked up by others.

It's not about the carrier "showing" symptoms, as that's a calibration from a hypothetical healthcare provider "observing" a person with the virus and declaring "you've got symptoms".

Prior to such hypothetical observation, the person with the virus spilling out into saliva and other bodily fluids didn't feel sick so he didn't avail himself to this hypothetical healthcare provider for observation.

If he doesn't feel sick, he's not presenting sufficient symptoms to even himself to "show" symptoms.

So for that most dangerous 24 hours, those roughly 24 hours prior to sneezing, prior to stomach upset and diarrhea, prior to fever, prior to body aches, he's reached the "overflow" saturation point where he's spilling virus into his external environment.

It's easy to buy the CDC's "don't panic" line, partially because it presents a scenario whereby we can "feel" like we know when we're safe, and partially because it just sounds good.

But, it's false.

And the degree to which it is false is measured in hours, hours that provide a very dangerous window of contamination that those professionals who must monitor people to prevent an epidemic are most assuredly cognizant of, and will thus respect if they're competent professionals and have not been corrupted by agency politicizing to justify policy.

Re: What is The One's strategy for defeating Ebola? Crickets...

mbig said:

It's spectacularly Easy and several airlines/countries have done so, including British Airways and Kenya Airways.

Again, what happens when one lands in Bombay, Libya, Mexico City, or Honduras, instead of Dallas?
UNANSWERED.

Stopping flights won't be 100%, but 90% is a Big improvement and will SLOW/CONTAIN the spread in good degree.
Your DISINGENUOUS answer doesn't even disagree it could slow the spread dramatically, just BSes up technical objections.

And again, what's the downside? Ten/Twenty thousand people loose their 'privilege' of International travel for a year?

Indeed, Straight answers are impossible from your crowd because you have NO logical point, just kneejerk PC.

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I know and I love how people just gloss this over and say, 'oh just dont let them on the planes there.'

It means stopping people coming in from any country. And depending on 100% accurate screening in those countries for the disease/early symptoms/fever. We cant even do that here.

The economic implications of this are very damaging. As are the civil rights issues for Americans trying to return.

National Survey of Nurses Shows Heightened Ebola Concerns

Three out of four nurses say their hospital hasn't provided sufficient education for them on Ebola, according to a survey by the largest professional association of registered nurses in the United States. National Nurses United has been conducting an online survey of health care workers across the U.S. as the Ebola outbreak has widened globally. After a Texas nurse who cared for the first patient diagnosed with the Ebola in the U.S. tested positive for the virus Sunday, the group released its latest survey findings.

Out of more than 1,900 nurses in 46 states and Washington D.C. who responded, 76 percent said their hospital still hadn't communicated to them an official policy on admitting potential patients with Ebola. And a whopping 85 percent said their hospital hadn't provided educational training sessions on Ebola in which nurses could interact and ask questions. The survey also found that 37 percent of nurses felt their hospital had insufficient supplies for containing the deadly virus, including face shields and goggles or fluid-resistant gowns.

NBC News

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Not exactly inspiring news :roll:

Samhain said:

They don't have to enter another persons body directly, or immediately. The fluids can be transmitted from an object(clothing, seat, your hand, etc) for up to 3 days.

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If it enters your bloodstream. And not your mouth I dont believe because stomach acid kills most things except enterics.

So you have to have a cut on your hand or touch your eyeball or something like that. So it is possible but not that likely.

MMC said:

Heya OG. :2wave: CDC is now saying there was a protocol breach. From 42 mins ago.


CDC: Protocol breach in treating Ebola patient.....

Top federal health officials said Sunday that the Ebola diagnosis in a health care worker who treated Thomas Eric Duncan at a Texas hospital clearly indicates a breach in safety protocol. But the unidentified worker has been unable to pinpoint where that breach might have occurred, according to Dr. Tom Frieden, head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

He said the CDC has recommended that the hospital where the worker is being treated — and where Duncan died Wednesday — should keep "to an absolute minimum" those who care for Ebola patients and should perform only those procedures that are essential to a patient's treatment. He cautioned that additional health care workers could develop Ebola even as he expressed confidence that the "chain of Ebola" could be broken. He said that the CDC, as part of its investigation on how the worker became infected, would look at dialysis and intubation, procedures with the potential for spreading infectious material, as well as the removal of protective gear. Removing it incorrectly can lead to a contamination, he said. Earlier, on CBS' "Face the Nation," Frieden said the worker was doing self-monitoring. "Immediately when they developed symptoms, they isolated themselves, they were promptly isolated at the hospital so that any further spread from that individual was stopped," he said.....snip~

CDC: Protocol breach in treating Ebola patient

How many believe this guy from the CDC?

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If you break down what he is saying its something like "we have no idea what she did wrong, but it had to be something"

Lol

Sabanist said:

If you break down what he is saying its something like "we have no idea what she did wrong, but it had to be something"

Lol

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Actually, he's back tracked on that!

He stressed during a noon briefing that whatever “breach in protocol” occurred was not necessarily because of an error by the health care worker or the hospital.

Read more: CDC director: We must rethink Ebola - Susan Levine - POLITICO.com

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So what breach is left? If the hospital and nurse error isn't "necessarily" the breach then what the hell is left.

Sabanist said:

If you break down what he is saying its something like "we have no idea what she did wrong, but it had to be something"

Lol

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Well we have reports from Nurses saying they aren't prepared. Then reports that hospitals aren't. Then this guy Maki stated something different.




However, only large hospitals such as those affiliated with major universities truly have the equipment and manpower to deal with Ebola correctly, Maki said.

Health care workers treating Ebola patients are among the most vulnerable, even if wearing protective gear. Nurses at many hospitals "are alarmed at the inadequate preparation they see," says a statement from Rose Ann DeMoro, executive director of the union National Nurses United.....snip~

Health care workers monitored after Ebola case - KAIT-Jonesboro, AR-News, weather, sports

Nina Pham Confirmed As First Known Person To Contract Ebola In U.S.
13 October 2014

The identity of the Dallas health care worker who contracted Ebola after treating a patient who later died of the virus has been confirmed. The family of 26-year-old Nina Pham, a nurse at Dallas' Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital. The family also confirmed the news to USA Today. Pham is the first known person to contract the virus in the United States. According to the Dallas Morning News, Pham is a 2012 graduate of Texas Christian University. Friends and family describe her as a "big-hearted, compassionate" person dedicated to her nursing career.

HuffPo

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May her recovery be swift and complete.

She graduated from her nursing program in 2010. Four years later she has a life threatening disease. Sucks to start your career that way. I wish her a speedy recovery.

Re: What is The One's strategy for defeating Ebola? Crickets...

JasperL said:

If you take your suggestion literally, any American who goes to assist takes a one way trip out of America, never to return.

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They can return, they just have to spend 21 days in isolation and testing before they can rejoin the rest of the population.

Lursa said:

We are not prepareed. This just on my nightly local news:

76% of US hospitals have not communicated any policies regarding potential Ebola patients

85% of nurses have received no education regarding how to handle Ebola patients

1/3 of US hospitals dont have sufficient supplies of eye protection and non-permeable gowns with which to treat Ebola patients

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But Obama and his CDC lackey still think everything is fine!

They just need to stop flights from coming from West Africa. Failing that, people should be thoroughly screened before being allowed to set foot on the plane in Africa. We spend billions worldwide on disease control and epidemic quarantine protocols, how hard is it?

It's not surprising that at least one person in contact with patient zero contracted ebola. U.S. hospitals are in an abysmal state, many are in third world conditions. If ebola hits any of our under-resourced medical facilities, it will spread like crazy.

Simpleχity;1063861461 said:

May her recovery be swift and complete.

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If she doesn't recover its going to ugly.

People dont trust this administration and or the CDC anyway.

If a young healthy woman, who is recieving immediate care in America doesn't survive, people are going to lose it and demand all travel be stopped immediately from West Africa.

Northern Light said:

They just need to stop flights from coming from West Africa. Failing that, people should be thoroughly screened before being allowed to set foot on the plane in Africa. We spend billions worldwide on disease control and epidemic quarantine protocols, how hard is it?

It's not surprising that at least one person in contact with patient zero contracted ebola. U.S. hospitals are in an abysmal state, many are in third world conditions. If ebola hits any of our under-resourced medical facilities, it will spread like crazy.

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It would be nice to get the truth from the CDC.

Re: What is The One's strategy for defeating Ebola? Crickets...

mbig said:

I already specified I support Intensive aid/med teams.
But only in and out by Chartered flights with special precautions, including possible quarantine.
COVERED.

Duh..
By the time they drove anywhere significant they'd probably be overtly sick if they were.
(Can you even drive anywhere significant from ie, Monrovia, Liberia. Border Checkpoints too)
They still can't Fly without Documentation/Passports from the 3 countries, and can't get to the USA/EU.
COVERED.

It's spectacularly Easy and several airlines/countries have done so, including British Airways and Kenya Airways.

Again, what happens when one lands in Bombay, Libya, Mexico City, or Honduras, instead of Dallas?
UNANSWERED.

Stopping flights won't be 100%, but 90% is a Big improvement and will SLOW/CONTAIN the spread in good degree.
Your DISINGENUOUS answer doesn't even disagree it could slow the spread dramatically, just BSes up technical objections.

And again, what's the downside? Ten/Twenty thousand people loose their 'privilege' of International travel for a year?

Indeed, Straight answers are impossible from your crowd because you have NO logical point, just kneejerk PC.

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I won't bother addressing all your points. The fact is travel bans to be effective will cause massive logistical problems for the aid workers, and those getting supplies and people into the area. If someone wants to make a serious proposal, such as setting up the kind of charter flights that can coordinate across dozens of countries, and hundreds of suppliers to get the needed manpower and supplies there, and then arrange for the in-region quarantines or deal with the quarantines back here in the U.S. for soldiers and volunteers and paid workers with the NGOs and the rest, and we budget the money to pay for all that, then that's fine, but it will require a massive cooperative effort. If you're suggesting that the Obama administration should start that, OK, fine. Then you've got a serious position.

But don't pretend that there's no "logical" point to objecting to knee-jerk travel bans. There is at a minimum the serious requirement that we weigh the harm, and cost and incredible difficulty of an EFFECTIVE travel ban and the harm such a ban would cause to getting needed help there in the region with the benefits of preventing some people from coming here already infected, including workers and volunteers. You're pretending it's a one way, no downside but inconvenience proposition. That's just naive.

Lursa said:

If it enters your bloodstream. And not your mouth I dont believe because stomach acid kills most things except enterics.

So you have to have a cut on your hand or touch your eyeball or something like that. So it is possible but not that likely.

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Incorrect. It can be transmitted through your mouth, as well as your eye, a mucus membrane(nose) or via a wound.

Basically if it enters your body in any manner, you are probably going to contract it.

So a possible scenario would be: guy sneezes on your protective suit, you take it off, accidentally touch the phlegm, then hours later you wipe your mouth, you have ebola.

Some variation of the above is most likely how the nurse contracted it, unless there is a new means of transmission that has yet to be discovered with this strain