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Thread: War against Isis: US strategy in tatters as militants march on

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    Re: War against Isis: US strategy in tatters as militants march on

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    You've obviously not talked to some of the Turks on this forum (especially Sut). There's many in Turkey that see the Kurds as only terrorist, and could never tolerate a Kurdistan. It be like AQ setting up a small country in Mexico on our border.
    Not quite. There's a lot more history there. In any case Turkey has an ISIS problem whether they like it or not. They can deal with it themselves or let the Kurds deal with it and just keep the guns and money coming for the Kurds. Like I said the Turks and the Kurds can come to an agreement if they are smart that works for both, despite their mutual animosity. They have a common enemy. People tend to forget grudges for a while, if they have a common enemy.
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    Re: War against Isis: US strategy in tatters as militants march on

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Iran and ISIS will go at it. Let them. ISIS is Sunni and Iran is Shia. We have no business putting boots on the ground period. If Iraq and the Kurds cant handle it now they wont be able to handle it latter either. Providing material support to the Kurds Iraq and Syria if necessary is a better way to do things. We get in there and we will be hounded by all sides we have help that is fleeting at best. There is no real win for here. Just damage control. I am not advocating isolationism, I advocating either a more mercantile approach or a limited support approach. Either way our approach should be one that keeps our military presence to an absolute minimum just trainers advisers and technical help. These people must win the day themselves with their blood, their grit. If the situation goes to ISIS so be it, we let the Iranians and Saudi's deal with them and offer the two arms deals and we profit off the situation. ISIS will have to go through those 2 countries and I guarantee they aint going down easy to ISIS, especially the Iranians. If we take the radical step and support Syria (Bashar) as well then ISIS fights a two front war. Its definitely in our interests to stay out militarily and keep our presence minimal and mercantile.
    But again-what happens when ISIS takes over? What if Saudi Arabia and Iran wont or cant fight them? What happens if they get into a proxy war there? What happens when ISIS uses its territory to attack US interests and our allies in the region?

    The truth is that ISIS is evil, something we haven't seen to this degree for some time. The US made the mess in Iraq, we should clean it up. How do you expect to win the war on terror when you scede territory to the enemy based on a politicians deadline?

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    Re: War against Isis: US strategy in tatters as militants march on

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Curtis Le May specifically targeted civilian cities in Japan. And did so in Germany as well. That's why we developed firebombs. We even built replicas of German and Japanese cities to determine the optimum method to achieve the greatest destruction. Make no mistake we were ruthless bastards and no targets were taboo. We considered civilians as legitimate targets because they were part of the war efforts manufacturing materials and assisting enemy fighting forces. If they were dead or homeless and hungry they would then detract from the war effort. Like I said we were ruthless pitiless calculating bastards.
    Perhaps but its better than being appeasers or supplicants to ISIS these days. Not saying you are.

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    Re: War against Isis: US strategy in tatters as militants march on

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Not quite. There's a lot more history there. In any case Turkey has an ISIS problem whether they like it or not. They can deal with it themselves or let the Kurds deal with it and just keep the guns and money coming for the Kurds. Like I said the Turks and the Kurds can come to an agreement if they are smart that works for both, despite their mutual animosity. They have a common enemy. People tend to forget grudges for a while, if they have a common enemy.
    Just curious-do you think the US has an ISIS problem?

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    Re: War against Isis: US strategy in tatters as militants march on

    ISIS may be deadly, but I think they are contained. They cannot just take over the whole of ME.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
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    Re: War against Isis: US strategy in tatters as militants march on

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Not quite.

    There's a lot more history there. In any case Turkey has an ISIS problem whether they like it or not. They can deal with it themselves or let the Kurds deal with it and just keep the guns and money coming for the Kurds. Like I said the Turks and the Kurds can come to an agreement if they are smart that works for both, despite their mutual animosity. They have a common enemy. People tend to forget grudges for a while, if they have a common enemy.
    Yes, this may be a good opportunity for Kurds and Turks to get along better from then on after.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: War against Isis: US strategy in tatters as militants march on

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Just curious-do you think the US has an ISIS problem?
    Depends on the degree US wants its influence in ME and the price it may be willing to pay.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: War against Isis: US strategy in tatters as militants march on

    For what it's worth, these are my thoughts on the issue.

    1. No people can be saved if they're not prepared to fight for themselves. The Kurds have proven to be brave and serious combatants and deserve the support of the west in their struggle against ISIS/ISIL/IS - they are bravely fighting to save Kobani, perhaps for cultural/nationalistic reasons, but they are fighting.

    2. Either the UN or NATO needs to be more actively involved. Turkey is playing a very dangerous political game in this mess. They want Assad gone and they also want to see the Kurds both neighbouring them and within Turkey to be weakened. They are happy to sit on their border and watch Kobani fall and Kurds be slaughtered for their own internal benefit. NATO should demand, yes demand, Turkish involvement in this fight and if they refuse Turkey should be turfed from the alliance.

    3. This mess cannot be solved by the US or by any coalition of western interests - it can only be solved, if at all, by a coalition of Middle Eastern interests. This is, in my opinion, the direct result of Obama/US indifference to what was an initial student/opposition uprising in Syria and turned into the battleground of various Muslim and terrorist interests throughout the Middle East. It is beyond western control and likely beyond western influence at this point.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: War against Isis: US strategy in tatters as militants march on

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    For what it's worth, these are my thoughts on the issue.

    1. No people can be saved if they're not prepared to fight for themselves. The Kurds have proven to be brave and serious combatants and deserve the support of the west in their struggle against ISIS/ISIL/IS - they are bravely fighting to save Kobani, perhaps for cultural/nationalistic reasons, but they are fighting.

    2. Either the UN or NATO needs to be more actively involved. Turkey is playing a very dangerous political game in this mess. They want Assad gone and they also want to see the Kurds both neighbouring them and within Turkey to be weakened. They are happy to sit on their border and watch Kobani fall and Kurds be slaughtered for their own internal benefit. NATO should demand, yes demand, Turkish involvement in this fight and if they refuse Turkey should be turfed from the alliance.

    3. This mess cannot be solved by the US or by any coalition of western interests - it can only be solved, if at all, by a coalition of Middle Eastern interests. This is, in my opinion, the direct result of Obama/US indifference to what was an initial student/opposition uprising in Syria and turned into the battleground of various Muslim and terrorist interests throughout the Middle East. It is beyond western control and likely beyond western influence at this point.
    But its going to be the same old story-Arab armies will fight poorly, the UN and Nato will not grow a pair-and we will be left with another tyrannical force unless someone steps in.

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    Re: War against Isis: US strategy in tatters as militants march on

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    What do you propose to be the solution?
    There are no good options. The two best are:

    1. Withdraw and allow ISIS to do what it wants to do.
    2. Wage all out war and ISIS and destroy it

    Going half way gets half results. I would rather see option 1 than what we are doing.

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