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Thread: South Carolina Supreme Court Halts Same-Sex Marriage Licenses

  1. #211
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    Re: South Carolina Supreme Court Halts Same-Sex Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    WTF are you talking about.

    Seriously. I think you are down this "nature" path because you do not want to say "God".
    I'm talking about marriage. Please try to keep up.

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    Re: South Carolina Supreme Court Halts Same-Sex Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I've shot down every supposed rational interest supporting a same-sex marriage ban.

    Do you have some more?
    You flatter yourself. And the rational basis standard used in equal protection and substantive due process cases requires that a law serve a legitimate government interest. Words matter.

    It's not up to me, or anyone in another state, to justify a state marriage law that excludes same-sex partners. The Supreme Court itself does not try to justify laws under rational basis review, because as it acknowledges, that is not its job.

    The question is not whether the judge thinks a law implements a wise policy, or implements it in the best possible way. He personally may think it's a very poor way to further a very foolish policy--but he doesn't have to like it. The question for the court is whether there is any conceivable legitimate purpose of government that the people of that state might have thought was served by their law.

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    Re: South Carolina Supreme Court Halts Same-Sex Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    1. Divorce should not exist as it purports to do that which is ontologically not possible for the state to do.

    2. Legal separation should only be an option in cases of adultery or abuse.
    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    In government terms, marriage is a type of contract between two people.

    DIvorce ends the "contract".

    Your overthink is amusing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    It is a contract which lasts by nature until the death of one of the spouses. The state should not purport otherwise.
    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    WTF are you talking about.

    Seriously. I think you are down this "nature" path because you do not want to say "God".
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    I'm talking about marriage. Please try to keep up.
    Good gracious.

    You are the one wiggling around the marriage discussion trying to make like divorce should be illegal because it is some sort of "nature" thing.

    At least have the character to say what you are actually getting at. You believe divorce should be illegal because of your religious beliefs.

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    Re: South Carolina Supreme Court Halts Same-Sex Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    You flatter yourself. And the rational basis standard used in equal protection and substantive due process cases requires that a law serve a legitimate government interest. Words matter.

    It's not up to me, or anyone in another state, to justify a state marriage law that excludes same-sex partners. The Supreme Court itself does not try to justify laws under rational basis review, because as it acknowledges, that is not its job.

    The question is not whether the judge thinks a law implements a wise policy, or implements it in the best possible way. He personally may think it's a very poor way to further a very foolish policy--but he doesn't have to like it. The question for the court is whether there is any conceivable legitimate purpose of government that the people of that state might have thought was served by their law.
    You can claim it's not up to you to justify a measure, but you at least have to name the interest it supposedly serves. Otherwise you end up in this weird situation akin to proving a negative, where the plaintiff must disprove a literally infinite number of possible reasons.

    "We have to ban same-sex marriage because vanilla ice cream is unhealthy" is not an interest I need to disprove, surely you agree. Rather, stated interests need to be disproven.

    There is no conceivable legitimate purpose to banning same-sex marriage. There is no rational belief that banning same-sex marriage will result in better homes for children, or more heterosexual marriages, or more stable homes, or more children, or any other reason ever stated. Upholding your tradition and imposing it on to me is not a legitimate state interest. Ensuring you aren't personally offended by a change in definition of a legal term is not a legitimate state interest.

    And this is all even assuming rational basis review is the correct standard. Several courts disagree. Personally, I think at least intermediate scrutiny applies because defining marriage as between a man and a woman is quite clearly a distinction of gender.
    Last edited by Deuce; 10-12-14 at 03:05 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: South Carolina Supreme Court Halts Same-Sex Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    When a minority is seen as a detriment to the overall wellbeing of the whole, then we must make exeptions.
    How are they a detriment? Can you please give examples of how they are harming anyone, or society?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: South Carolina Supreme Court Halts Same-Sex Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    It is a contract which lasts by nature until the death of one of the spouses. The state should not purport otherwise.
    Individuals are welcome to behave as you suggest with or without a state contract.

    People dont have to be married...or get state sanction...to make a commitment to themselves, or before God, or anything else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: South Carolina Supreme Court Halts Same-Sex Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Good gracious.

    You are the one wiggling around the marriage discussion trying to make like divorce should be illegal because it is some sort of "nature" thing.

    At least have the character to say what you are actually getting at. You believe divorce should be illegal because of your religious beliefs.
    He uses the 'natural law' premise to try and get around his Catholic beliefs and using God. He has admitted he knows however, that the 'natural law' philosophy also appeals to a higher authority and nature being driven by a higher purpose.

    I am not criticizing but explaining his use of 'natural', which he has written here himself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: South Carolina Supreme Court Halts Same-Sex Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Good gracious.

    You are the one wiggling around the marriage discussion trying to make like divorce should be illegal because it is some sort of "nature" thing.

    At least have the character to say what you are actually getting at. You believe divorce should be illegal because of your religious beliefs.
    It is correct that my being Catholic is why I believe divorce should be illegal.

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    Re: South Carolina Supreme Court Halts Same-Sex Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Why only oppose their marriage and not heterosexual fornicators and adulterers?
    Heteros are by nature non-fornicating but, I do indeed dislike adulterers.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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    Re: South Carolina Supreme Court Halts Same-Sex Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Heteros are by nature non-fornicating but, I do indeed dislike adulterers.
    Straight men live to have sex....the less strings attached the better. So your comments on 'fornicators' is completely wrong. Unless you have a different definition of fornication than I do.

    Of course, women enjoy sex outside of marriage too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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