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‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

Why do you hate the first amendment right of freedom of association, and support authoritarian fear tactics?

I would ask you the very same question.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

A slacker in a non-union shop isn't going to be around too long. I won't argue about proof; you're probably right. But perception is often reality, yes?

brother is in a union and moved his way up by working and getting noticed but there are a lot of people that don't do anything and still make union pay.
he was working they were sitting. getting the same pay as him. now he can't move up anymore and has to do a lot more work than others.

dad is in a union getting ready to retire. same thing he worked hard and made the same pay as the slackers.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

In case you're missed the other dozen times it's been pointed out in this thread, you can't force anyone to join a union. It's another right wing, anti worker myth.

yet that is exactly what this union is trying to do and it is illegal and makes the union liable.
if the company does nothing to stop it then it makes the company liable for lawsuit as well.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

As a supporter of unions I'm a fan of freedom of association.

I'm also a fan of free speech, like publicly labeling freeloaders as such.

they are not freeloaders they are employee's that choose freedom of association by not joining the union.
your hypocrasy is amazing you evidently don't support the freedom of association.

yet that free speach is a violation of worker harassment laws and non hostile work enviroments.

so evidently you don't support the things you say you do.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

I would ask you the very same question.

umm he does support those things. you on the other hand along with others do not.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

In case you're missed the other dozen times it's been pointed out in this thread, you can't force anyone to join a union. It's another right wing, anti worker myth.

The choice is join the union or dont get the job-thats what you support. And you also apparently support coercion and thuggery to do just that. Not very tolerant, is it?
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

I concedce nothing. You're making baseless ignorat statements about the struggle for fair and equitable labor versus cowardly back riding by those who are too afraid to join said struggle. The coward runs from the field.

yep you conceed the point. they are not scabs they are not running from anything. they choose to take their employment in their own hands and feel they can do better without the union.

they will to. more so when the union decides to strike making 50 dollar a week strike pay while the people that chose to deal with the company on their own terms make full pay and full work.

i would say they are not running but taking up their own cause the most noble of efforts.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

brother is in a union and moved his way up by working and getting noticed but there are a lot of people that don't do anything and still make union pay.
he was working they were sitting. getting the same pay as him. now he can't move up anymore and has to do a lot more work than others.

dad is in a union getting ready to retire. same thing he worked hard and made the same pay as the slackers.
Contracts determine expectations for both employer and employee. If employees aren't working hard and retain their jobs it's because their employer didn't want them to when agreeing to terms.
yet that is exactly what this union is trying to do and it is illegal and makes the union liable.
if the company does nothing to stop it then it makes the company liable for lawsuit as well.
The union is encouraging freeloaders to stop being freeloaders. It's not legal compulsion as the many corporate apologists in this thread have mistakenly claimed.
they are not freeloaders they are employee's that choose freedom of association by not joining the union.
your hypocrasy is amazing you evidently don't support the freedom of association.

yet that free speach is a violation of worker harassment laws and non hostile work enviroments.

so evidently you don't support the things you say you do.
They're freeloading off the work and money of the unions. That's not debatable. They're scum who take and refuse to give back. I have no sympathy for their selfish, ignorant type.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

Contracts determine expectations for both employer and employee. If employees aren't working hard and retain their jobs it's because their employer didn't want them to when agreeing to terms.

wrong they tried to fire them and the union protected them there was nothing the company could do.

The union is encouraging freeloaders to stop being freeloaders. It's not legal compulsion as the many corporate apologists in this thread have mistakenly claimed.

no they are harassing workers and creating a hostile work environment all of which is illegal unless you can prove it isn't. which you can't so you lose.
the union is liable for any and all worker harassment and if they refuse to stop and the company doesn't do anything then both are liable.

They're freeloading off the work and money of the unions. That's not debatable. They're scum who take and refuse to give back. I have no sympathy for their selfish, ignorant type.

wrong. they are not freeloading off anything. they are employee's that signed their own contracts. they are working and neogiating their own wages and salaries. they have 0 union protection in case they have to be let go of. they don't owe something they are not using.

i have no sympathy for thuggery and work place harassment.
evidently you support law breakers which is what the union is doing.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

The union is encouraging freeloaders to stop being freeloaders. It's not legal compulsion as the many corporate apologists in this thread have mistakenly claimed.

That's not encouragement, especially if they have the same inclinations you do.

Encouragement would be polite and positive. It would not ostracize.

Now, being an obnoxious asshole is UAW Local 31's strategy. One may misconstrue this as encouragement, but that is not the correct assessment.

That strategy ought to be condemned, not just because it is not very effective in winning people over, but because it is improper, childish behavior.
 
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Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

that's only if you have the idiotic entitlement mentality that you are OWED a job. You ARE NOT. A job is nothing more than an employer trying to obtain a commodity KNOWN AS LABOR. If you are unwilling or unable to supply the commodity at terms the Employer wants, then he SHOULD BE FREE to find another source

Not to forget that the other guy without a job wants to work and his simpler needs translate into a product that can better compete with German or Chinese producers, maybe securing the production base in the states.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

wrong they tried to fire them and the union protected them there was nothing the company could do.
Because the company agreed to that in the contract that both the company and the union signed off on.
no they are harassing workers and creating a hostile work environment all of which is illegal unless you can prove it isn't. which you can't so you lose.
the union is liable for any and all worker harassment and if they refuse to stop and the company doesn't do anything then both are liable.
I'll wait until a judge decides it's illegal, until then, I'm of the assumption that posting the names of scabs is no different than posting the name of sex offenders.
wrong. they are not freeloading off anything. they are employee's that signed their own contracts. they are working and neogiating their own wages and salaries. they have 0 union protection in case they have to be let go of. they don't owe something they are not using.
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i have no sympathy for thuggery and work place harassment.
evidently you support law breakers which is what the union is doing.
Again, let's see what a judge has to say.
That's not encouragement, especially if they have the same inclinations you do.

Encouragement would be polite and positive. It would not ostracize.

Now, being an obnoxious asshole is UAW Local 31's strategy. One may misconstrue this as encouragement, but that is not the correct assessment.

That strategy ought to be condemned, not just because it is not very effective in winning people over, but because it is improper, childish behavior.
So you're faulting them for not being supportive enough to people ripping them off?
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

could someone tell me what Nimby's blatherings have to do with what I said.

As long as yer naming names Turtle--do you support nonUnion corporate CEOs with pressure tactics threatening their jobs if they vote to join a union--threatening their jobs if they don't vote for GOP scab-representing-reprehensible pols in right-to-work-for much less states ?
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

The choice is join the union or dont get the job-thats what you support. And you also apparently support coercion and thuggery to do just that. Not very tolerant, is it?

Have you given up yer weekends yet--fought for by yer Union bros and sisters--how about workplace safety during the flu epidemic 100 years ago--too bad progress--ive GOP Prez TR couldn't clean up his elite/gilded wing fast enough huh ?
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

Have you given up yer weekends yet--fought for by yer Union bros and sisters--how about workplace safety during the flu epidemic 100 years ago--too bad progress--ive GOP Prez TR couldn't clean up his elite/gilded wing fast enough huh ?

Unions are an archaic holdover-in fact oversight has made them obsolete-what they are empirically these days-are jackbooted thugs, and part of the democrat vote mill. That includes public sector unions.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

So you're faulting them for not being supportive enough to people ripping them off?

I fault them for not being able to accept that these workers haven't done anything wrong by applying for and accepting a job.

I fault you for not being able to tell the difference between theft and not making a donation to an optional organization.

I get the fact that the Union is required by law to represent these people. That's not the worker's fault. That's the government's fault. Lobby for a law change. Leave the workers alone.

If I am pissed off at a law, I don't go running around town to find out what average person may benefit and start plastering their name on the internet or a public place.

Is it really that hard to comprehend? Has basic law and order and decency left you people? For Pete's sake. You unionists are supposed to be the bastion for the working man and here you guys are thinking it's alright to tar and feather one of your own like a bunch of barbarians, because he didn't make a damn optional donation.
 
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Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

No...not every workplace has slackers

Some bosses don't tolerate them at all....I am one of them

Your sick, or depressed, or whatever...go home

I don't need you that day

Yes...I am a sonofabitch to work for.....

My expectations are high......for every employee

And do your employees hate you for it or do they respect you?
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

As long as yer naming names Turtle--do you support nonUnion corporate CEOs with pressure tactics threatening their jobs if they vote to join a union--threatening their jobs if they don't vote for GOP scab-representing-reprehensible pols in right-to-work-for much less states ?

I support private employers hiring and firing whomever they want. if that means firing union activists-so be it.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

I get the fact that the Union is required by law to represent these people. That's not the worker's fault. That's the government's fault. Lobby for a law change. Leave the workers alone.

Well, the irony is groups like ALEC who host corporate-sponsored meetings where state legislators and lobbyists meet behind closed doors to write and vote on model legislation, have worked deligently to make it harder for unions to fight such laws by decreasing union funding. That is partly the reason people no longer have to pay agency fees anymore even though they can enjoy all the same benefits union members can receive. This encourages more and more people to say "why should I pay for these bennies when others get them for free" which only makes those willing to pay the fee having to not only foot the bill for his portion but also for all those unwilling to pay. A very smart move on ALEC's behalf to divide workers in the workplace. It's the old divide and conquer tactic and it works. Anyway, a better approach may be for unions to better educate their members about what is happening than to shame them to pay their way.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

Except the difference between publicly shaming freeloaders and killing people for their religious beliefs is just a little different.

Not much....Demonization campaigns often start with language, and lies about those one ideology propagates against another...We've seen this before.

People want a free lunch. It costs money and effort to make that free lunch. They're cheating themselves and the rest of us by undermining the lunchmakers.

I've never said that Unions don't have a place in society, at least when they work responsibly. I grew up in a Union city, Lansing Michigan. However, if you think that I should HAVE to join a Union to have a job, that is a problem. Your right to assemble, is also my right to not.

They hurt the businesses ability to generate record revenues so that people like you and I can earn better wages.

You don't get to determine what profit a company makes. This is the point where your jealousy of not being rich comes out...I'm not interested in that sorry.

http://www.conservativemyths.com/union-graph1.png
Ironically, when people are scared to unionize, it's probably the most important time to unionize because that's when we the workers are usually getting abused the most.

I don't put much stock in a website that you can't even tell who runs it, or who funds it...It's propaganda.

Unions advocating for balanced import laws will increase the likelihood of domestic manufacturing. As it stands we're going to be undercut by every foreign country that ignores environmental and worker laws. It will take trade barriers to shift manufacturing back here.

Yeah, trade barriers like the high taxation rate that progressives like you want to levy on business.

I agree that the Citizens United decision was a horrible one and should be reversed.

You included this answer to my #2 in my quote of #3...I hope that wasn't intentional. In any case CU was proper, and progressives like you don't like it largely because it takes away the one sided ability to support political agendas that Unions were setting up...Now, it levels the playing field and you all hate it.

If businesses were offering better situations, we wouldn't need unions. Unions are a response to abuse by business.

Apparently that is exactly what is happening, with union support being at all time lows in this country, they are getting desperate.

The middle class jobs are decreasing, and instead the pay goes to the top tier earners instead of the majority of us. This is a trend that unions can combat.

Destroying the company is not how you increase jobs. Again, I know you have great disdain for those who run companies, but not everyone is equipped to be a CEO.

Now, would I like to see parity in salaries where some CEO's don't make 400% or more of their workers wage? Eh, I really don't care as long as I make a good wage, and have a secure job...Why are progressives so concerned with what the other guy makes, instead of focusing on the job you do, so that you can earn more?

The workforce has more qualified workers than ever, yet the pay rates for most are decreasing even after they've saddled themselves with student loan debt.

Yep, and you can thank progressive policies for that...High taxes, demonizing, promoting welfare over work while pushing business to cheaper labor centers in the world is the result...

Working together is a better beat and better rhyme than undercutting your fellow worker and ultimately having them return the favor by undercutting you.

When your definition of "working together" means something other than agree with me, or do it my way, then we have a basis for discussion. That isn't the case now, thanks to progressives that took power, and decided to say one thing, and act in another.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

No it was me knowing that I didn't have the time, this isn't the right forum or space, and my spidey sense telling me that the effort would be wasted on you.


So it was pure Bull **** then...Look, don't throw out crap if you can't back it up...That is a fail of epic proportions...
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

and this is why I didn't have the time, space, or inclination...

Oh, because you made some crap up, speaking with people that don't agree with your ideological bent as if they are dung you scrape off your shoe, and think that makes you sound intellectual?

No sir, It makes you look the exact opposite.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

Your attitude is clear. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Oh please, you haven't made a coherent point yet. All you have done is attack others....pfft...typical.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

Well, the irony is groups like ALEC who host corporate-sponsored meetings where state legislators and lobbyists meet behind closed doors to write and vote on model legislation, have worked deligently to make it harder for unions to fight such laws by decreasing union funding. That is partly the reason people no longer have to pay agency fees anymore even though they can enjoy all the same benefits union members can receive. This encourages more and more people to say "why should I pay for these bennies when others get them for free" which only makes those willing to pay the fee having to not only foot the bill for his portion but also for all those unwilling to pay. A very smart move on ALEC's behalf to divide workers in the workplace. It's the old divide and conquer tactic and it works. Anyway, a better approach may be for unions to better educate their members about what is happening than to shame them to pay their way.

LOL

Inside the vast liberal conspiracy - Kenneth P. Vogel - POLITICO.com


Picture this: millionaires and billionaires gathering under tight security in fancy hotels with powerful politicians and operatives to plot how their network of secret-money groups can engineer a permanent realignment of American politics.

Only, it’s not the Koch brothers. It’s the liberal Democracy Alliance.​
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

LOL

Inside the vast liberal conspiracy - Kenneth P. Vogel - POLITICO.com


Picture this: millionaires and billionaires gathering under tight security in fancy hotels with powerful politicians and operatives to plot how their network of secret-money groups can engineer a permanent realignment of American politics.

Only, it’s not the Koch brothers. It’s the liberal Democracy Alliance.​

Nice red herring which has nothing at all to do with rebutting that ALEC is behind much of what is happening to weakening unions. There are even people like Chris Edwards who is an economist at the Cato Institute who don't want to stop until they are dead. "Unions are going the way of the dinosaur in the U.S. private sector, which is a good thing for workers and businesses because it will make America more competitive," he said. "If right-to-work laws extend to the 50 states, then private sector unions will be dead in America."

How does Edwards feel about the death of all private sector unions?

"Good riddance," he said. Analysis: Why America's unions are losing power - CNN.com

Also read: How Michigan's Right-To-Work Law Came to Be | BillMoyers.com
 
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