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‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702]

RedAkston said:
The last line is bolded for emphasis. These are the tactics that unions use and it's plain wrong. I dare anyone to defend what the union is doing here with a straight face.
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Well, that's the tactic that this union is using, and it's wrong on multiple levels.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

rabbitcaebannog said:
That's because you dislike unions.
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See, what a whole bunch of people know is that it takes very little skill and attitude over mediocre to be a star. Unions foster mediocrity, plain and simple. If you're paying me $35 an hour and ask me to pick up a broom? I'm going to say, "Sure, what needs sweeping?" A union employee is going to say, "It's not my job."

I don't need to tag along on your mediocrity. I can excel all by myself.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

rabbitcaebannog said:
Unions are all liberals?
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not at all. many union members are socially very conservative but their organizations are very one sided in terms of financial support
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

rabbitcaebannog said:
....because the agent is negotiating for you.
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And some people can negotiate better on their own

When a shop negotiates the exact same wage for every worker, they take money out of the best workers pockets

If every worker makes 24.00 hour what is the incentive to do more....make more....go faster?

When everyone negotiates their own rates, the best workers make the most pay....as it should be
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

MaggieD said:
See, what a whole bunch of people know is that it takes very little skill and attitude over mediocre to be a star. Unions foster mediocrity, plain and simple. If you're paying me $35 an hour and ask me to pick up a broom? I'm going to say, "Sure, what needs sweeping?" A union employee is going to say, "It's not my job."

I don't need to tag along on your mediocrity. I can excel all by myself.
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Just because someone works for a union does not make them mediocre.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

fmw said:
Join or face the consequences. Sounds a little like what ISIS does to non believers.
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Except the difference between publicly shaming freeloaders and killing people for their religious beliefs is just a little different.
j-mac said:
That's pure nonsense...Why would you think that?...People want the jobs, just not the union...At least at the moment...
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People want a free lunch. It costs money and effort to make that free lunch. They're cheating themselves and the rest of us by undermining the lunchmakers.
j-mac said:
See, I think it is like a pendulum. At the moment, the unions are coming off a period of their popularity where they abused that trust, and went too far in demands to the point that over time it was clear that it hurt the businesses that allowed them in.
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They hurt the businesses ability to generate record revenues so that people like you and I can earn better wages.

union-graph1.png

j-mac said:
And now they are at an all time low in participation because times are tough, and people are scared to lose their jobs, for fear that they won't find another one...http://www.conservativemyths.com/union-graph1.png
Ironically, when people are scared to unionize, it's probably the most important time to unionize because that's when we the workers are usually getting abused the most.
j-mac said:
From my perspective, Union membership will only come back in certain sectors when a few things come into place...

1. When manufacturing returns
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Unions advocating for balanced import laws will increase the likelihood of domestic manufacturing. As it stands we're going to be undercut by every foreign country that ignores environmental and worker laws. It will take trade barriers to shift manufacturing back here.
j-mac said:
2. When Unions reform their mode of operation, and cease using their dues they mandate from members to meddle in political agendas that their members don't agree with
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j-mac said:
I agree that the Citizens United decision was a horrible one and should be reversed.
3. And only if the businesses involved don't offer something better to keep them out...
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If businesses were offering better situations, we wouldn't need unions. Unions are a response to abuse by business.

The middle class jobs are decreasing, and instead the pay goes to the top tier earners instead of the majority of us. This is a trend that unions can combat.

NELP_Job_Growth_Rates_Longterm.PNG

j-mac said:
People today, along with businesses know that the labor market is highly competitive, and to keep good employees businesses have done things, that in the past they may not have when qualified workers were in abundance...

So, a deeper understanding of what is going on in the workforce today is what progressives like you don't get, and probably never will if you keep trying to crudely use the Alinsky model of snark and insult to silence your opponents.
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The workforce has more qualified workers than ever, yet the pay rates for most are decreasing even after they've saddled themselves with student loan debt.

090511_PctWithDegrees.jpg


productivity1.png

j-mac said:
As the old song says:

'You should get some better beats'

'and uh'

'Get some better rhymes'....
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Working together is a better beat and better rhyme than undercutting your fellow worker and ultimately having them return the favor by undercutting you.
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Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

gdgyva said:
And some people can negotiate better on their own

When a shop negotiates the exact same wage for every worker, they take money out of the best workers pockets

If every worker makes 24.00 hour what is the incentive to do more....make more....go faster?

When everyone negotiates their own rates, the best workers make the most pay....as it should be
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People working different levels can make different rates. What you are basically saying is people don't have an incentive to do better if they are paid well.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

rabbitcaebannog said:
Just because someone works for a union does not make them mediocre.
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True, but mediocrity is certainly tolerated by the union.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

TurtleDude said:
not at all. many union members are socially very conservative but their organizations are very one sided in terms of financial support
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I don't think either party has been good for unions as of late. Of course that is JMO.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

rabbitcaebannog said:
Just because someone works for a union does not make them mediocre.
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I don't know...the union rep comes around and says, "Slow down, you're going to get this job re-rated," so the employee slows down. Rewarding people for longevity rather than performance does little to encourage a strong work ethic and enthusiasm for a job well done or innovation in the workplace. When your union goes out of its way to defend assholes who most certainly should be fired out of hand? Well, that promotes an attitude of "Who gives a tinker's dam?" And when your union creates an us-against-them mentality every chance it gets? Loyalty? No such thing. At least that's my take.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

rabbitcaebannog said:
Just because someone works for a union does not make them mediocre.
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No....there are some good employees in union shops

And their hands are tied Ina lot of cases

Too work too fast....don't make everyone else look average at best now

Unions breed mediocrity.....it is what they do
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

rabbitcaebannog said:
I don't think either party has been good for unions as of late. Of course that is JMO.
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global labor environments have been the hardest on unions. Except for captive markets-like AFSCME, unions are doomed. any industry where one can move their manufacturing or tech support to say India, is going to be union free pretty soon
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

MaggieD said:
I don't know...the union rep comes around and says, "Slow down, you're going to get this job re-rated," so the employee slows down. Rewarding people for longevity rather than performance does little to encourage a strong work ethic and enthusiasm for a job well done or innovation in the workplace. When your union goes out of its way to defend assholes who most certainly should be fired out of hand? Well, that promotes an attitude of "Who gives a tinker's dam?" And when your union creates an us-against-them mentality every chance it gets? Loyalty? No such thing. At least that's my take.
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People who have a strong work ethic can move up the ladder quicker than those who do not. Every place of business has its super stars and its slackers. There is no proof that union workers are lazier than non union workers.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

rabbitcaebannog said:
Just because someone works for a union does not make them mediocre.
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True, but their pay will be based on the mediocre.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

rabbitcaebannog said:
People working different levels can make different rates. What you are basically saying is people don't have an incentive to do better if they are paid well.[/


No...just the opposite

I of use incentives to get the most of of my workers

I make my workers compete against each other....and they continuously raise the bar for each other

And their pay is based on production.....not just showing up

Incentives work.....I get more out of my employees....and they get more in their checks

Win/win
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Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

gdgyva said:
No....there are some good employees in union shops

And their hands are tied Ina lot of cases

Too work too fast....don't make everyone else look average at best now

Unions breed mediocrity.....it is what they do
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I've never heard of an union employee told to slow down.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

rabbitcaebannog said:
People who have a strong work ethic can move up the ladder quicker than those who do not. Every place of business has its super stars and its slackers. There is no proof that union workers are lazier than non union workers.
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A slacker in a non-union shop isn't going to be around too long. I won't argue about proof; you're probably right. But perception is often reality, yes?
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

rabbitcaebannog said:
People who have a strong work ethic can move up the ladder quicker than those who do not. Every place of business has its super stars and its slackers. There is no proof that union workers are lazier than non union workers.
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In most, if not all, union contracts, that is simply not true. A job gets posted, the applicant with the highest seniority gets the job.
 
Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

TurtleDude said:
global labor environments have been the hardest on unions. Except for captive markets-like AFSCME, unions are doomed. any industry where one can move their manufacturing or tech support to say India, is going to be union free pretty soon
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I think this could be very true. With that said, so will the worker's power to negotiate. They will have to compete with much lower standards globally. Not a good trend for workers at all.
 
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