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Thread: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Worker's right is a blanket statement for corporate rights. Who really is making out when workers don't have to pay (at the very least) an association fee for things they must receive via the union? The workers who have to pick up double/triple the cost are not making out and often decide to opt out as their freeloader friends have decided to do. Who can blame them? It takes resources away from unions which is really the whole push for such laws.
    and the strawman. nope not blanket statement at all. workers have the right to join the union or not join the union and have the right to a hostile free work place. they have the right of freedom of association not matter what it is.

    nope no freeloaders the union doesn't own the job. it isn't the unions job to give away but the compainies job. they are not free loaders but employee's of the company that have agreed to their own contracts of employment.

    they evidently don't feel that the union can help them in any way and in fact hurts them more than helps them.

    ad hominem is not an argument and only shows what a failure your actual argument is.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Ruh roh! Tin foil hat alert, Tin foil hat alert! Incoming conspiracy theory, clear all Area 51 airspace, incoming conspiracy theory!
    That is your answer?

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Freedom of association is the freedom to form and join a union. People have worked hard for generations to ensure that you havve weekends off, a good wage, and benefits. Would you go into a Catholic church and demand a protestant service? By your logic that is what you would do. You're being contrarian simply because you don't like unions. I can guarantee you that with the unions in those shops wages and bennies would not be near where they are today.
    freedom of association is also the freedom to not join a union. you kinda left that out.
    actually i have never been in a union. i have no desire to be in one either. i can neogiate my pay a lot better for my skill.
    i get a pay raise and promotion based on what i do. the people that slack well i can't say the same thing.

    umm why would i go to a place and demand something they don't offer that makes no sense which sums up your argument.
    nope not at all. why freedom of association.

    I have no problem with unions and if people want to join them. i think it makes worse for them in the long run that it is their choice.
    What i have a problem with and what you think is perfectly fine is work place harassment which is illegal. so far you have yet to show me how work place harassment is legal under federal guidelines. if the union continues to create a hostile work enviroment then they are legally liable for a lawsuit. if the company doesn't stop it then they are liable as well.

    you can't guarantee anything because you don't know.

    it is the same reason that foreign auto workers are paying the same amount or more to their non-labor employee's so that they have no reason to unionize.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    and the strawman. nope not blanket statement at all. workers have the right to join the union or not join the union and have the right to a hostile free work place. they have the right of freedom of association not matter what it is.

    nope no freeloaders the union doesn't own the job. it isn't the unions job to give away but the compainies job. they are not free loaders but employee's of the company that have agreed to their own contracts of employment.

    they evidently don't feel that the union can help them in any way and in fact hurts them more than helps them.

    ad hominem is not an argument and only shows what a failure your actual argument is.
    But they don't have their own contracts. They use the same contracts as their union counterpart. If the push was really to allow individuals to negotiate their own wages and benefits etc....then why isn't that the case??? Because that IS NOT the real reason these people are not part of the union. They are part of the union because everything the union negotiated and won for its workers is received by them too. They just don't have to pay. They also are allowed union representation if something goes wrong which is paid for by their union counterparts. How unfair is that? The people who thought this law through were pretty smart in that this law is designed to divide and conquer.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    As this thread heads off deeper into the Twilight Zone I'll make a couple observations on right wing behavior before the thread disappears from coherence completely:

    1. In true propaganda fashion, the right has taken a relatively minor incident (the posting-of-the-names article in the OP) and used it as a vehicle to make unsubstantiated and sometimes misrepresented historical claims and comparisons (all with an anti-union bent), and to rewrite dictionaries. This has the effect of brainwashing the willing (and we know they're out there).

    2. In true anti-social fashion, the right champions the taking from others -- in this case, their fellow co-workers (in the non-payment of dues or agency fees). In true Objectivist fashion, it's all about 'me' -- screw 'you' if you're too 'weak' to take from others. The law of the jungle. This is a very dangerous mindset for a country that has a very powerful military . . . .

    3. The personal and sometimes vicious insults littered throughout this thread have pretty much all come from the right, showing yet another aspect of anti-social disrespect for one's fellow man. Another bad omen for a country with a massive military... for history has shown us that demonization precludes oppression, and oppression precludes extermination.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Freedom of association is the freedom to form and join a union. People have worked hard for generations to ensure that you have weekends off, a good wage, and benefits. Would you go into a Catholic church and demand a protestant service? By your logic that is what you would do. You're being contrarian simply because you don't like unions. I can guarantee you that with the unions in those shops wages and bennies would not be near where they are today.
    None of that justifies the use of strong arm tactics to intimidate American citizens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    You can believe in fairy tales too if you want
    Internet posters can make bogus claims that they can't back up if they want, but they aren't going to fool anyone but the most biased and gullible fools.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    But they don't have their own contracts. They use the same contracts as their union counterpart. If the push was really to allow individuals to negotiate their own wages and benefits etc....then why isn't that the case??? Because that IS NOT the real reason these people are not part of the union. They are part of the union because everything the union negotiated and won for its workers is received by them too. They just don't have to pay. They also are allowed union representation if something goes wrong which is paid for by their union counterparts. How unfair is that? The people who thought this law through were pretty smart in that this law is designed to divide and conquer.
    The objective of right to work is to allow small business operators to operate their business, without being forced to join a union.

    e.g. if you're an electrician and you want to start your own business--one man operation--you don't have to join a union and rightfully so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    [...] nope no freeloaders the union doesn't own the job. it isn't the unions job to give away but the compainies job.
    The job is subject to a contract between the union and the company. The best description is that both entities own the job. In fact, since a union contract typically stipulates that the company will hire union employees, or at least that the union will represent the employees, it actually probably is more of a union job than a company job. Of course since the company can downsize or upsize or simply close, they do have some control on the number of jobs available.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    they are not free loaders but employee's of the company that have agreed to their own contracts of employment.[...]
    They have agreed to the employment contract shared between the company and the union. Each employee does not have "their own contract" -- that's preposterous. If your argument depends upon making stuff up, you need to be more creative.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    yeah, i hear the unions and their supporters say that all the time.....it's primarily a scare tactic " if we don't represent you, they'll cut your pay and make your 8 year old son work in the mines", but there is some effect on other wages, to be sure... to what extent?... who knows?
    I think they have a very real hand in labor shortages in conjunction with their contracts , though... which is a fine way to artificially inflate wages, if you're into manipulating markets.

    union, today, are primarily in the public sector( govt, and govt contractors)... that's their stronghold....they can't negotiate wages/benefits in govt (thank god)... they are utterly useless in the very "industry" they have a stranglehold on.

    anymore, i'm starting to believe the primary purpose of the unions is self preservation, followed by electing Democrats to office, followed by creating huge non-taxable slush funds .... workers come in around #10 or #12 ( the behavior and arguments of the pro-unionists around here attest to that fact)
    Look at the wages and working conditions in the countries that ban labor unions and you'll see what happens when workers are powerless.

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