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Thread: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Well I'm not sure where this became about free trade agreements. The conversation seemed like it was about unions.
    Well the tie that binds the two is that free trade is a union killing tool. As the unions raise working standards here, implementing free trade basically says well just run to where there are no standards.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Well the tie that binds the two is that free trade is a union killing tool. As the unions raise working standards here, implementing free trade basically says well just run to where there are no standards.
    To me, free trade means that the unions priced themselves out of a job and the government taxed themselves out of revenue.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Meister View Post
    To me, free trade means that the unions priced themselves out of a job and the government taxed themselves out of revenue.
    Kind of. Its easy to be priced out of a job union or not when your country's trade policy sets the stage for untariffed trade with countries who have basically slave labor. I remember the downfall of the north as companies fled to the south. The both bitched and the south did victory laps. Then a lot of those jobs in the south fled to mexico and the south bitched and mexico did victory laps..(just as Ross Perot said would happen). Then those jobs left mexico for India and china. And now chinas getting pissed at Vietnam for under pricing their labor. It is a race to the bottom that's so bad that we are now doing business with the very same countries and political ideologies we were taught were living at 665... Right next door to Satan.

    With free trade policies businesses are fleeing to the countries that now how to forcibly make sure their workers do exactly what their told and told for how much no questions asked and our politicians are setting a stage with free trade that says we should be more like them to compete.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Well the tie that binds the two is that free trade is a union killing tool. As the unions raise working standards here, implementing free trade basically says well just run to where there are no standards.
    You're blaming the government for allowing trade and failing to be protectionistic, instead of blaming the labor cartels for directly making domestic labor non-competitive.

    Unions cannot survive in competitive markets. Like all cartels, they require monopoly power and, often times, accommodation by the government in maintaining it.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Are you actually suggesting it is UNIONS that make the education system in those states better???? How about we go with property tax for $500 Alex. Or the burden on the education system? You just highlighted one of the major issues why most people are ignorant when it comes to education: attributing a single problem as the cause for an issue, or in your case a single solution for the success.

    Did I say it was the only problem? No. You seem to be saying that the unions are making the education system better. They aren't. One word: tenure. Something that protects bad teachers from being fired. How is that ok?

    http://www.teachersunionexposed.com/protecting.cfm

    Just take a read about tenure. Like I said...it is a travesty. And it isn't so much that all teachers in a union are bad. It is that the union doesn't exist for education. It doesn't exist to help kids. It exists to protect teachers. And it has now turned to protecting BAD teachers.

    I would be ok if unions policed themselves and removed bad teachers, but they do not. Not even close.
    It is the administrators job to actually show up and do an evaluation and if he/she does not like what he/she sees, it is administrations job to write that in the teacher's evaluation. It's really pretty pathetic to blame the unions for administration not doing their job properly.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Kind of. Its easy to be priced out of a job union or not when your country's trade policy sets the stage for untariffed trade with countries who have basically slave labor. I remember the downfall of the north as companies fled to the south. The both bitched and the south did victory laps. Then a lot of those jobs in the south fled to mexico and the south bitched and mexico did victory laps..(just as Ross Perot said would happen). Then those jobs left mexico for India and china. And now chinas getting pissed at Vietnam for under pricing their labor. It is a race to the bottom that's so bad that we are now doing business with the very same countries and political ideologies we were taught were living at 665... Right next door to Satan.

    With free trade policies businesses are fleeing to the countries that now how to forcibly make sure their workers do exactly what their told and told for how much no questions asked and our politicians are setting a stage with free trade that says we should be more like them to compete.
    These anecdotes you posted only point out how free trade is raising all ships. Unemployment has not gone through the roof in any western democracies despite freer trade, and conditions for workers in third world countries has also improved because production is inevitably lower, and poorer, under 'slave labor' conditions.

    If it was as you claim there would be fewer working in the US, and yet the claims by the Obama administration is that unemployment is dropping and recovery is on the way. Both cannot be correct.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    You're blaming the government for allowing trade and failing to be protectionistic, instead of blaming the labor cartels for directly making domestic labor non-competitive.

    Unions cannot survive in competitive markets. Like all cartels, they require monopoly power and, often times, accommodation by the government in maintaining it.
    If by competitive market you mean slave/prison and child labor... what labor can compete? This is what you want us to compete with. Such ****ed up methods isn't competing, it's beyond cheating.

    I want the world's standards to rise. While you want our standards to drop to the worst possible levels the world can offer and call it "competing".
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    If by competitive market you mean slave/prison and child labor... what labor can compete? This is what you want us to compete with. Such ****ed up methods isn't competing, it's beyond cheating.
    I don't mean slave/prison/child labor. That's misleading vividness. Unions aren't trying to stifle competition with slave labor. They're trying to stifle competition with every other form of labor, and even within their own ranks at times (seniority).

    I want the world's standards to rise. While you want our standards to drop to the worst possible levels the world can offer and call it "competing".
    No, that's a straw man. I believe you want the world's standards to rise, and I also want that, but I believe the methods you think work actually just end up backfiring. Just because unions helped eradicate serious abuse once upon a time doesn't mean the pendulum hasn't swung back too far in the other direction.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    These anecdotes you posted only point out how free trade is raising all ships. Unemployment has not gone through the roof in any western democracies despite freer trade, and conditions for workers in third world countries has also improved because production is inevitably lower, and poorer, under 'slave labor' conditions.

    If it was as you claim there would be fewer working in the US, and yet the claims by the Obama administration is that unemployment is dropping and recovery is on the way. Both cannot be correct.
    In spite of. Not because of. Without these free trade policies our meagerly growing economy would be an exploding economy. Ask anyone we are supposedly "free trading" with that we are in massive trade deficits with because of their economically protectionist policies such as trade barriers of imports and currency manipulation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    In spite of. Not because of. Without these free trade policies our meagerly growing economy would be an exploding economy.
    Who would buy your goods is the rest of the world was poor? The American worker has less take home pay than a decade ago but that has more to do with too much government than overseas labor.

    Ask anyone we are supposedly "free trading" with that we are in massive trade deficits with because of their economically protectionist policies such as trade barriers of imports and currency manipulation.
    If what you say is true these policies can only hurt them over the long term. This is especially true of currency manipulation because it creates a dishonest market, which is always unsustainable..

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