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Thread: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    How ?
    You pass a law that says you can't fire without cause. OR a law that says you are not allowed to fire someone based on their political views. There are dozens of ways to word it so that a teacher doesn't get thrown out for any number of reasons. You don't need a union for these laws to exist.
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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    You pass a law that says you can't fire without cause. OR a law that says you are not allowed to fire someone based on their political views. There are dozens of ways to word it so that a teacher doesn't get thrown out for any number of reasons. You don't need a union for these laws to exist.
    the union is needed to enforce those prospective laws in the workplace
    management and labor negotiate a contract, to which both execute showing their agreement
    but a union is needed to enforce the contract provisions and/or to interpret the intent of the contract terms
    the union levels the playing field of the parties. without collective bargaining, the employer can exploit the vulnerability of a single employee
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    You pass a law that says you can't fire without cause. OR a law that says you are not allowed to fire someone based on their political views. There are dozens of ways to word it so that a teacher doesn't get thrown out for any number of reasons. You don't need a union for these laws to exist.
    Who would lobby for these laws if there were no unions?

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

    I'll consider being opposed to unions when employers are banned from joining business organizations, hiring lawyers and having HR staffs. Until then workers need unions to have a fighting chance.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the union is needed to enforce those prospective laws in the workplace
    management and labor negotiate a contract, to which both execute showing their agreement
    but a union is needed to enforce the contract provisions and/or to interpret the intent of the contract terms
    the union levels the playing field of the parties. without collective bargaining, the employer can exploit the vulnerability of a single employee

    i know a few labor lawyers that would disagree with that statement

    we live in a VERY litigious society....been sued so many times now, the paperwork no longer even raises my blood pressure

    Had to settle a couple....mostly sexual harassment from bad employees...happens when you have over 140 employees no matter how much training we do

    One bad slip and fall on the premises...those types of things

    Been sued a number of times regarding employment

    people claiming all sorts of things....not promoted.....not paid fairly.....unfair practices.....etc

    lost exactly zero of these....settled none....

    i think you will find in todays workplace, most employers are very aware of workers rights......

    and they do everything in their power to make sure they are upheld......

    not doing so is just stupid business practice......and no one in business i know can afford to do business that way
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    i know a few labor lawyers that would disagree with that statement
    i am guessing their practices are primarily representing the employer

    we live in a VERY litigious society....been sued so many times now, the paperwork no longer even raises my blood pressure
    if you are in the right - and you have good attorneys to display your company's innocence - then there is no reason to have your blood pressure elevated

    Had to settle a couple....mostly sexual harassment from bad employees...happens when you have over 140 employees no matter how much training we do
    and i speculate that in each of those instances, had the employee not raised the grievance, there would have been no action by the company to settle

    One bad slip and fall on the premises...those types of things
    absolutely. which party was negligent

    Been sued a number of times regarding employment
    only once for me, but have led litigation in a number of suits as the plaintiff

    people claiming all sorts of things....not promoted.....not paid fairly.....unfair practices.....etc

    lost exactly zero of these....settled none....
    only because those employees were unable to prove their assertions. which is one of the things unions help employees to do. the collective group can accomplish much more than a single employee

    i think you will find in todays workplace, most employers are very aware of workers rights......

    and they do everything in their power to make sure they are upheld......
    don't think i would agree with that. what prevents most potential litigation is that the employee is ignorant that they have a valid case. and in other instances, the employee is without the resources to engage in protracted litigation against a employer with deep pockets. another reason why a collective of employees can do what a solo employee cannot

    not doing so is just stupid business practice......and no one in business i know can afford to do business that way
    depends on the employer. some hire so many lawyers, they would rather keep them working than settle. and others know they can out-spend the plaintiff, and run the clock in court. it's a viable strategy given their circumstances. they can run that clock on the union, too. which is why it is so important that the union have access to sufficient dues to afford to counter such a litigation strategy
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    You pass a law that says you can't fire without cause. OR a law that says you are not allowed to fire someone based on their political views. There are dozens of ways to word it so that a teacher doesn't get thrown out for any number of reasons. You don't need a union for these laws to exist.
    So, is this a federal law that usurps states rights, or is it 50 laws that will need to be passed in all 50 states?

    Now, let's say we get that/those laws passed, and let's further say that I'm a school administrator or a school board and I/we direct that science teachers stop teaching evolution and start teaching creationism instead. If some science teachers refuse, can we fire them? If so, on what basis? Cause? Refusing to follow orders?

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    So, is this a federal law that usurps states rights, or is it 50 laws that will need to be passed in all 50 states?

    Now, let's say we get that/those laws passed, and let's further say that I'm a school administrator or a school board and I/we direct that science teachers stop teaching evolution and start teaching creationism instead. If some science teachers refuse, can we fire them? If so, on what basis? Cause? Refusing to follow orders?
    Of course they couldn't be fired. Teaching Creationism in a public school would be an association with religion, which the laws do not allow in Public Schools.

    Your paranoia about religious people perhaps caused you to cite a bad example.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    The unions do push up wages for workers, but market pressures push back at pricing hikes. So to make the one on one comparison that wage hikes = price hikes while ignoring all other pressures on costs and prices isn't accurate. It's not just wages that effect prices. I'll say that wages CAN push prices up but not that it WILL push up prices.
    Sounds like you're trying to deny fundamental cost accounting principles here. Price increases aren't the market "pushing back" on the prices of their inputs. They are a direct reflection of the price of their inputs.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

    The way the market does push back against price increases, whether the price increase is due to rising labor costs or some other reason, is that demand declines, as consumers seek lower-priced alternatives where costs are not being forced higher. And this illustrates why union membership in the private sector has declined and declined, and why unions have consequently flocked to industries where demand is not affected by price increases, namely the public sector. Citizens don't have a choice to pay property taxes, higher municipal utility rates, or whatever else. The revenue stream is mandated, so unions can get away with more price hiking without the subsequent backlash. But this is the very reason that public unions should be abolished. Citizens do not have their rightful place at the bargaining table, so there is no legitimate place for collective-bargaining.

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