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Thread: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Correct, but that did not prevent anti-union posters from claiming that unions were no longer necessary, even though that really doesn't make any sense with respect to the topic. So, a factual counterclaim was called for to discredit the anti-unionists in general.
    Well fine, quote them...not me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Irrelevant with respect to the anti-unionists claims. If your interested in more stories of the abuse of non-union workers, you'll find them at the link provided. It seems the industry practice it to treat them as 'independent contractors', a shakey tax-dodge often employed by companies that want to dodge all benefits (FICA, Workers Comp, health insurance, etc), which means they have no benefits at all. For even more information on non-union employee abuse, Google is your friend.
    Hardly irrelevant and I'm specifically interested in what abuses have been suffered by non-union reality TV staff. The author from Gawker seemed to stress that and since you felt that snip was important enough to highlight, you should have no problem with retrieving the data.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    One of the more obvious problems with the activity being carried out by unions that is the topic of this thread? Is that in the real world in 2014, this kind of disclosure is no longer acceptable. And publishing such information is a liability which leaves responsible entities vulnerable to prosecution due to intimidation and harassment issues that spring up from the publication of private information. Responsible companies no longer publish lists and guides to their employes telephone numbers and addresses precisely because of the real world real and what has happened to people as a result of such "list". In 2014 organizations are held financially liable and responsible for actions that have occurred as the result of such published list. For reasons varying from sexual harassment, outward. Whereas ten years ago, one could walk up to a schedule board at, oh say a restaurant? There would be the list of employees, and so as to make shift trades and communication amongst staff easy, there would be the phone numbers of all the staff. Namely all the pretty young servers. This does not occur anymore because no responsibly operated restaurant will be caught dead doing that in 2014, precisely because of the fact that there are always bad actors that can and will do "bad things" with this kind of personal information. So the practice is no longer acceptable and is considered a "no brainer" (as in don't do it) in 2014. But one that if a business ignores, might just lead to an expensive lawsuit.

    Yet we are to accept the truly childish insistence of people on the internet that unions should get a pass, just the rest of America has to operate that way? Of course not, that would be idiotic. As always happens when the subject of unions comes up on internet boards, die hard union defenders will arrive to collectively offer the intellectual equivalent of "nuh-uh". To pretty much any fact or statement that is critical of the union in question. This thread has been very illustrative o in that way. One lamentable thing about some "unions" is that like many institutions in America in 2014? What started as a necessary and desirable reform protection has morphed into yet more institutions that are basically profiting at the expense of and taking advantage of the working class.
    Last edited by Great King Rat; 10-13-14 at 03:48 PM.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Great King Rat View Post
    One of the more obvious problems with the activity being carried out by unions that is the topic of this thread? Is that in the real world in 2014, this kind of disclosure is no longer acceptable. And publishing such information is a liability which leaves responsible entities vulnerable due the problems of intimidation and harassment. Companies no longer publish lists and guides to their employes telephone numbers and addresses precisely because of the real world real history that surrounds what has happened to people as a result of such "list". Successful lawsuits in our courts have repeatedly found organizations financially liable and responsible for actions that have occurred as the result of such published list. For reasons varying from sexual harassment, outward. Whereas ten years ago, one could walk up to a schedule board at, oh say a restaurant. There would be the list of employees, and so as to make shift trades and communication amongst staff easy, there would be the phone numbers of all the staff. No responsibly operated restaurant will be caught dead doing that in 2014, precisely because of the fact that there are always bad actors that can and will do "bad things" with this kind of personal information. So the practice is no longer acceptable and is considered a "no brainer" (as in don't do it) in 2014.

    As always happens when the subject of unions comes up on internet boards, die hard union defenders will arrive to collectively offer the slightly less than intellectual equivalent of "nuh-uh". To well, pretty much any fact or statement that is critical of the union in question. And this thread has been quite illustrative of that idiocy. One lamentable thing about "unions" is that like many institutions in the America of 2014? What started as a necessary and desirable reform has now, many decades later, largely morphed into yet more institutions that are basically profiting at the expense of and taking advantage of the working class.
    wow
    so many words for so little information

    let's examine what the union ACTUALLY did:

    it listed the names/departments of the non-dues paying bargaining unit employees

    how heinous was that?
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    wow
    so many words for so little information

    let's examine what the union ACTUALLY did:

    it listed the names/departments of the non-dues paying bargaining unit employees

    how heinous was that?
    Why did they do that?
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Why did they do that?
    to provide information to their membership is my GUESS
    those non-dues paying bargaining unit members; have they made a conscience decision to be a free rider and enjoy the benefits of union representation without incurring the costs to maintain those union provided benefits? are they employees who have never been approached to sign up? are they co-workers who do not understand what the union has negotiated for the bargaining unit, and would pay their way if they only knew what had been done on their behalf and the expenses associated with such representation? are they co-workers who are cozy with management and recognize that it is their relationship with management rather than their union affiliation that will likely advance their career? are they co-workers the bargaining unit members would find trustworthy to share information with, or should important information be withheld from them - possibly because they are management moles? are those on that list also those who receive preferential treatment from management? are they the ones who have been promoted instead of union members?
    by knowing who is and is not dues paying the union membership can help identify to the union any appearance of disparate treatment, which favorable/unfavorable treatment based on union participation is an unfair labor violation
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    The numbers don't lie.
    Yeah, but in this case you're not reading them correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    A "relationship" is a matter of opinion. Numbers are a matter of fact. My post above is based on fact. Sorry those don't work out for your claims. Perhaps OpinionPolitics would be better suited for your argument than DebatePolitics?
    Actually, it's you not reading the numbers correctly. The opensecrets link does not confirm the original assertion. GE itself gives to dems and repubs equally. Some individuals within the org give more to repubs. The WORKERS give more to repubs by a large amount.

    When did you stop being for the workers?

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    wow
    so many words for so little information

    let's examine what the union ACTUALLY did:

    it listed the names/departments of the non-dues paying bargaining unit employees

    how heinous was that?
    In context, very.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    It's close enough to debunk the poster's original claim:

    The fact is the Democracy Alliance, the mothership of the Progressive Machine, has done more to influence legislation in Washington, draft bills, influence anti-business legislation, fund elections, and spread propaganda across the United States than ALEC or any conservative group could dream to have done. [...]

    He, or you, are welcome to provide your own data proving your claims. I won't be holding my breath. In the meantime, he has clearly failed.
    You have only given information that could even reasonably act against one of his items: fund elections. Even then, your argument has a significant flaw because it does not allow for a direct and proportional comparison. I'm not saying I disagree with your point on election funds, but you did nothing to convincinly dissuade anyone who does.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    In context, very.
    share examples where heinous outcomes resulted from the union's actions
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    wow
    so many words for so little information

    let's examine what the union ACTUALLY did:

    it listed the names/departments of the non-dues paying bargaining unit employees

    how heinous was that?
    Let me ask you a few honest questions that immediately sprung to mind when I read your so called reply to my post. Do you expect to be taken seriously? With a post like that? Do you have issues with words, or having to read them in a forum like this? Is this text like grammatically challenged method of posting words you are using an affectation? It looks to me like you just proffered up an excuse (having to read?) for not actually addressing a thing I said. I'm aware of what the union did. Nothing about this story surprises me, except that in 2014 people servile to the unions will ignore and reject any and everything that is not equally so. As evidenced by a lot of posts in this now over 1,000 post "debate".

    I'm not persuaded by arguments based upon obtuse postures that the publication of the information in question can't and won't be used as information like that invariably and historically has been used. Mainly because in my opinion that is an idiotic stance. The aforementioned "no brainer" term comes to mind. I like how you introduce the concept that something "heinous" has occurred and then demand that others illustrate that to you. Again, you expect that to be taken seriously?

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