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Thread: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers[W:702:1041]

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Well, that pretty well sums up conservative ideology -- interested in an adult discussion? No. Interested in a hate party? Hell yeah!

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    In my sector, which is very competitive environment for workers seeking work (too many available workers per job) being a union member, which usually results from getting a good job, is a sign of success, indicates a high level of skill and the ability to be reliable and work hard.

    Lets remember that workers are human beings with families and needs, not machines. Of course it is best for an employer to find the smartest hardest working people who will work for cheap. The challenge for those who care about people, is that the even smartest hardest working people get sick, develop disabilities, have problems that may interfere with work a bit, and slow down with age a bit while at the same time they they bring the benefit of years of experience, knowledge and skills. Without union protection, good people who worked hard all their lives are treated like trash when their corporation employer finds a way to get someone faster and cheaper. As we know, that faster, cheaper person might be an illegal immigrant or the resident of an impoverished country where the corporation moves part of their operations.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Well, that pretty well sums up conservative ideology -- interested in an adult discussion? No. Interested in a hate party? Hell yeah!
    Here's an adult discussion on what unions are: they're cartels.

    Labor Unions: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty

    Although labor unions have been celebrated in folk songs and stories as fearless champions of the downtrodden working man, this is not how economists see them. Economists who study unions—including some who are avowedly prounion—analyze them as cartels that raise wages above competitive levels by restricting the supply of labor to various firms and industries.

    Many unions have won higher wages and better working conditions for their members. In doing so, however, they have reduced the number of jobs available in unionized companies. That second effect occurs because of the basic law of demand: if unions successfully raise the price of labor, employers will purchase less of it. Thus, unions are a major anticompetitive force in labor markets. Their gains come at the expense of consumers, nonunion workers, the jobless, taxpayers, and owners of corporations.

    According to Harvard economists Richard Freeman and James Medoff, who look favorably on unions, “Most, if not all, unions have monopoly power, which they can use to raise wages above competitive levels” (1984, p. 6). Unions’ power to fix high prices for their members’ labor rests on legal privileges and immunities that they get from government, both by statute and by nonenforcement of other laws. The purpose of these legal privileges is to restrict others from working for lower wages. As antiunion economist Ludwig von Mises wrote in 1922, “The long and short of trade union rights is in fact the right to proceed against the strikebreaker with primitive violence.” Interestingly, those who are expected to enforce the laws evenhandedly, the police, are themselves heavily unionized.

    U.S. unions enjoy many legal privileges. Unions are immune from taxation and from antitrust laws. Companies are legally compelled to bargain with unions in “good faith.” This innocent-sounding term is interpreted by the National Labor Relations Board to suppress such practices as Boulwarism, named for a former General Electric personnel director. To shorten the collective bargaining process, Lemuel Boulware communicated the “reasonableness” of GE’s wage offer directly to employees, shareholders, and the public. Unions also can force companies to make their property available for union use.

    Once the government ratifies a union’s position as representing a group of workers, it represents them exclusively, whether or not particular employees want collective representation. In 2002, unions represented about 1.7 million waged and salaried employees who were not union members. Also, union officials can force compulsory union dues from employees—members and nonmembers alike—as a condition for keeping their jobs. Unions often use these funds for political purposes—political campaigns and voter registration, for example—unrelated to collective bargaining or to employee grievances, despite the illegality of this under federal law. Unions are relatively immune from payment of tort damages for injuries inflicted in labor disputes, from federal court injunctions, and from many state laws under the “federal preemption” doctrine. Nobel laureate Friedrich A. Hayek summed it up as follows: “We have now reached a state where [unions] have become uniquely privileged institutions to which the general rules of law do not apply” (1960, p. 267).

    Labor unions cannot prosper in a competitive environment. Like other successful cartels, they depend on government patronage and protection. Worker cartels grew in surges during the two world wars and the Great Depression of the 1930s. Federal laws—the Railway Act of 1926 (amended in 1934), the Davis-Bacon Act of 1931, the Norris-LaGuardia Act of 1932, the National Labor Relations Act of 1935, the Walsh-Healy Act of 1936, the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938, various war labor boards, and the Kennedy administration’s encouragement of public-sector unionism in 1962—all added to unions’ monopoly power.

    Most unions in the private sector are in crafts and industries that have few companies or that are concentrated in one region of the country. This makes sense. Both factors—few employers and regionally concentrated employers—make organizing easier. Conversely, the large number of employers and the regional dispersion of employers sharply limit unionization in trade, services, and agriculture. A 2002 unionization rate of 37.5 percent in the government sector, more than four times the 8.5 percent rate in the private sector, further demonstrates that unions do best in heavily regulated, monopolistic environments. Even within the private sector, the highest unionization rates (23.8 percent) are in transportation (airlines, railroads, trucking, urban transit, etc.) and public utilities (21.8 percent), two heavily regulated industries.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    ...
    So that makes these lists defensible?
    Harassment, stalking, violence and vandalism are unethical and illegal and most union supporters do not defend such tactics. Providing information, discussing, convincing, embarrassing and shunning are ethical and legal ways to influence someone who is acting irresponsibly.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    In my sector, which is very competitive environment for workers seeking work (too many available workers per job) being a union member, which usually results from getting a good job, is a sign of success, indicates a high level of skill and the ability to be reliable and work hard.
    What a joke. Unions are labor cartels that, with the help of pro-union laws, make it virtually impossible to fire someone without serious legal repercussions being threatened, which leads to more job security than any employee would or should otherwise have, which begets complacency and thus doing the bare minimum (as there is significantly reduced risk of competition by lower bidders and harder workers outside the bargaining units).

    Lets remember that workers are human beings with families and needs, not machines.
    But the unemployed who are willing to do the same work for less? They're not human beings, and they deserve nothing, right? Only union members are human beings? The cartels protect themselves only, and do whatever they can to make life worse for those outside the cartel. They are fundamentally self-serving and embody all the same greed against which they proclaim to be fighting.

    Of course it is best for an employer to find the smartest hardest working people who will work for cheap. The challenge for those who care about people, is that the even smartest hardest working people get sick, develop disabilities, have problems that may interfere with work a bit, and slow down with age a bit while at the same time they they bring the benefit of years of experience, knowledge and skills. Without union protection, good people who worked hard all their lives are treated like trash when their corporation employer finds a way to get someone faster and cheaper. As we know, that faster, cheaper person might be an illegal immigrant or the resident of an impoverished country where the corporation moves part of their operations.
    I don't think I've ever read something so ridiculous. Above you pretended union workers are superior, yet here you are making excuses about why they should be protected even when they're inferior, and should not have to compete with more competent workers. This anti-competition crap is exactly what unions are all about. They are labor cartels that artificially constrict the supply of labor in certain areas so that they can push up the price way above what the market would support. This is exactly what cartels are. They are anti-competitive and economically toxic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Providing information, discussing, convincing, embarrassing and shunning are ethical and legal ways to influence someone who is acting irresponsibly.
    That's quite an interesting ethical code you have. WTF? Unionism is so utterly shameless.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 10-13-14 at 02:34 AM.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Well, that pretty well sums up conservative ideology -- interested in an adult discussion? No. Interested in a hate party? Hell yeah!
    You cant treat people like that.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Only ALEC is not a bit player, nor are they countering union influence and membership in every corner of our economy. That is fiction in your head.
    LOL

    Let's see, SEIU organizes public employees, so that union manipulation and exploitation at the state level. The NEA is the teachers unions, which means union manipulation and exploitation in public schools. The AFL-CIO organizes in the private sector, so along with it's affiliated unions, attempts to organize industry, construction, and a myriad of other industries.

    So, perhaps you're right, just fiction in my mind. The fact the White House visitor record documents frequent visits from the unions and frequent attendance by the Obama Administration to Democracy Alliance meetings pretty much destroys any arguments you're trying to make.

    Obviously the only fiction going on here is in your mind, not mine. As you've demonstrated quite well.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    No, since your post that I responded to spoke only of the one organization:



    I'm sorry that your 'fact' was wrong but trying to 'fix' it now only makes your argument even more bizarre.
    LOL.

    Massive FAIL again. You should have quit while you were behind. Your post attempted to suggest the Koch Bros were outspending the Democracy Alliance. They aren't even in the same league. Attempting to claim you were only responding to my post regarding the Democracy Alliance ignores the fact I refer to the whole liberal/progressive effort as the Progressive Machine, not just one tentacle.

    Perhaps you could spend some time gathering additional information on the subjects you are choosing to comment on rather than proving you haven't. One suggestion is to look at a comment and rather than do the typical lame "prove it" dance, learn for yourself where what ever claim they are making came from so your reply can be rational.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Nothing is as pervasive in politics as ALEC. Deny all you want but almost every single republican state politician and some dems are not only lobbied by ALEC but are actually MEMBERS of that ****ing organization that is lobbying them. Dumbass state politicians are pushing through the ALEC legislation with so much committment that they get caught not even changing the wording where they are supposed to take out "ALEC" and put in their name when submitting the legislation.

    There is no equivalence no matter how much you want to spin.
    LOL

    Because you say so? Your obsession is noted. However, facts aren't impressed by your claim. While I'm not trying to defend anything ALEC does, ALEC pales in the light of the breadth and reach of the Progressive Machine.

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    Re: ‘Pressure tactics’: Unions publishing names of nonunion workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    The union posts where people work by department, not where they live. Only another worker would be able to easilly find the person and there are plenty of laws against workplace harassment and lawsuit opportunities for the victim.
    If you're so confident laws keep people safe, you should have no objection to publishing your real name and work address, then.
    nut up, show some solidarity with your union comrades!
    Incrementally, and always under the guise of "fairness", "equality", and "social justice", the US Constitution has been deceitfully interpreted in ways that remove all limitations on central authority...and place them on the people.

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