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Police: Off-duty St. Louis officer shoots, kills man who fired at him

Samhain

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Off-duty officer shoots, kills man in St. Louis - CNN.com

An off-duty St. Louis police officer shot and killed an 18-year-old Wednesday, firing his gun 17 times, authorities said.
Angry residents damaged several police cars in response, even though police say the man fired first.

The death comes on the heels of the Michael Brown shooting two months ago in the St. Louis suburb of Ferguson, and just ahead of a "Weekend of Resistance" in St. Louis, where activists will push for movement in the investigation into that case.

Like Brown, the teen who was killed in Wednesday's shooting was black. The officers in both incidents are white, police said.

ST. LOUIS (AP) -- An off-duty police officer fatally shot an 18-year-old man who opened fire during a chase in south St. Louis, sparking loud protests in the area, police said Thursday.

What's the over/under on riots?

Also, why did CNN & AP decide that this time an 18 year old was a "man"?
 
Off-duty officer shoots, kills man in St. Louis - CNN.com





What's the over/under on riots?

Also, why did CNN & AP decide that this time an 18 year old was a "man"?

Interesting and yes, you're right. Michael Brown was a teen. Trayvon Martin was a teen. This teen was a man. I'm glad they at least caught up with that.

"Loud protests in the area"? What are they protesting here? The teen/man opened fire. What exactly were they supposed to do?
 
Interesting and yes, you're right. Michael Brown was a teen. Trayvon Martin was a teen. This teen was a man. I'm glad they at least caught up with that.

"Loud protests in the area"? What are they protesting here? The teen/man opened fire. What exactly were they supposed to do?

Well, he only fired once. So, in their mind. Nothing.
 
Lessons learned.
Do not engage in activities that attract Police/security attention.
Do not run from and shoot at said Police/security, once you have attracted said attention.
 
More details should come out shortly. Getting shot because you fired at a cop is not something that upsets me. The 17 shots fired back is somewhat concerning but we don't know what happened yet.
 
More details should come out shortly. Getting shot because you fired at a cop is not something that upsets me. The 17 shots fired back is somewhat concerning but we don't know what happened yet.

I dunno.. Someone shoots at me, I'm shooting back until I am absolutely certain that someone is no longer a threat to me. If that takes 17 shots.. So be it.
 
I dunno.. Someone shoots at me, I'm shooting back until I am absolutely certain that someone is no longer a threat to me. If that takes 17 shots.. So be it.

Yea I know. Every one online does. :roll: But reality is different. And again I don't know the circumstances regarding this case as they haven't been released yet. But if someone shoots at you, it does not give a free pass to do anything you'd like. There are laws to follow. Self defense only works while your life is threatened.
 
Yea I know. Every one online does. :roll: But reality is different. And again I don't know the circumstances regarding this case as they haven't been released yet. But if someone shoots at you, it does not give a free pass to do anything you'd like. There are laws to follow. Self defense only works while your life is threatened.

There is zero chance of charges, as long as there really was a shot from the other guy. It's how cops are trained.
 
The age of majority is 18. therefore any 18 yr. old male is a man by legal consideration. Media bends the rule in accordance to it's own agenda of "Entertainment Tonight spectacular tragedy to get most reads" yellow journalism.

Just more insidiously pathetic media BS.

My 2 cents

Thom Paine
 
Yea I know. Every one online does. :roll: But reality is different. And again I don't know the circumstances regarding this case as they haven't been released yet. But if someone shoots at you, it does not give a free pass to do anything you'd like. There are laws to follow. Self defense only works while your life is threatened.

How many real life shootings were you involved in?

Regarding the OP: If the investigation shows this was legit - I have no problem with the cop emptying his clip into this 18 year old "man". Will we get the claims that this 18 year old "man" was also a gentle soul, who aspired to go to college and become a lawyer or doctor?
 
Yea I know. Every one online does. :roll: But reality is different. And again I don't know the circumstances regarding this case as they haven't been released yet. But if someone shoots at you, it does not give a free pass to do anything you'd like. There are laws to follow. Self defense only works while your life is threatened.

In real life is it not true that if someone fires at you once your life is threatened and that your instinctual reaction would be to empty your magazine? :confused: I mean, do you take a timeout to check his pulse or what?
 
More details should come out shortly. Getting shot because you fired at a cop is not something that upsets me. The 17 shots fired back is somewhat concerning but we don't know what happened yet.
I think in many shootings, and likely this one, they fire until the magazine is empty.
This can happen VERY quickly.
 
Interesting and yes, you're right. Michael Brown was a teen. Trayvon Martin was a teen. This teen was a man. I'm glad they at least caught up with that.

"Loud protests in the area"? What are they protesting here? The teen/man opened fire. What exactly were they supposed to do?

They are opposed to cops indiscriminately killing young black men. It's been all over the news. The only justifiable shooting of a young black man is when he is shot by another young black man. All other shootings of black youth are due to race and out of control police.
 
How many real life shootings were you involved in?

Regarding the OP: If the investigation shows this was legit - I have no problem with the cop emptying his clip into this 18 year old "man". Will we get the claims that this 18 year old "man" was also a gentle soul, who aspired to go to college and become a lawyer or doctor?

I could probably agree with you, predicated on that bolded. I was treed by a wild hog deer hunting once, I had a pistol and a deer riffle, the tree I scrambled was a very branchy cedar, and the rifle wasn't useful. After the second shot the hog was still advancing, but the third shot dropped it. I still had seven shots left, and suppose that I could have fired all of them into the hog as well, just for good measure. Btw, I have zero problem with an on duty, or off duty cop, or anybody else for that matter, killing someone that was first trying to kill them.
 
I could probably agree with you, predicated on that bolded. I was treed by a wild hog deer hunting once, I had a pistol and a deer riffle, the tree I scrambled was a very branchy cedar, and the rifle wasn't useful. After the second shot the hog was still advancing, but the third shot dropped it. I still had seven shots left, and suppose that I could have fired all of them into the hog as well, just for good measure. Btw, I have zero problem with an on duty, or off duty cop, or anybody else for that matter, killing someone that was first trying to kill them.

I agree with your view of the wild boar. Now let's change your scenario where the wild boar was armed and fired a shot at you while your up the cedar.... ludicrous in reality yes but to me, that would change the situation a bit.
 
Well here we go. Looks like the cops were flat out lying and covering their asses.

Mom of man killed by St. Louis cop: He was unarmed

Turns out that a more thorough investigation by reliable sources prove that the kid had a sandwich, not a gun.

It was a sandwich bitten in the shape of a gun which shot a slice of jalapeno pepper at the cop, which could take an eye out. :roll:
 
I agree with your view of the wild boar. Now let's change your scenario where the wild boar was armed and fired a shot at you while your up the cedar.... ludicrous in reality yes but to me, that would change the situation a bit.

Ok, we could pretend the hog had a gun and fired a shot at me too. Have you ever encountered a wild hog, have you seen their tusks? Have you ever seen a hunting dogs stomach laid wide open by one? A three hundred and fifty pound wild hog is lethal, I suppose if he had a gun too, and I still dropped him on the third round that I could go ahead and pump the other seven rounds into him for good measure, sure. I told you Ockham that I have zero problem with self defense, and of course lethal self defense if someone fires upon you. Seventeen rounds is ridiculous, unless, that's what it took. Perhaps this cop missed a dozen times! Perhaps he needs more time on the firing range, lol.
 
Ok, we could pretend the hog had a gun and fired a shot at me too. Have you ever encountered a wild hog, have you seen their tusks? Have you ever seen a hunting dogs stomach layer wide open by one? A three hundred and fifty pound wild hog is lethal, I suppose if he had a gun too, and I still dropped him on the third round that I could go ahead and pump the other seven rounds into him for good measure, sure. I told you Ockham that I have zero problem with self defense, and of course lethal self defense if someone fires upon you. Seventeen rounds is ridiculous, unless, that's what it took. Perhaps this cop missed a dozen times! Perhaps he needs more time on the firing range, lol.

What my point is, is that boars don't climb. You could take your time and shoot the boar as long as it's still within range of your pistol. A cedar provides no protection for someone else shooting at you. I have never been in a gun fight - nor tangled with a live boar - however that doesn't mean I cannot understand the adrenalin boost that occurs. He may have fired 17 shots without even knowing it. I'm not going to say 17 shots is ridiculous because I have no first hand knowledge of what happens in this situation.
 
What my point is, is that boars don't climb. You could take your time and shoot the boar as long as it's still within range of your pistol. A cedar provides no protection for someone else shooting at you. I have never been in a gun fight - nor tangled with a live boar - however that doesn't mean I cannot understand the adrenalin boost that occurs. He may have fired 17 shots without even knowing it. I'm not going to say 17 shots is ridiculous because I have no first hand knowledge of what happens in this situation.

Eastern cedars, you may not be familiar with, they are branchy, often from the ground level, both easy and hard to climb, easy because branches are plentiful and extend near to the ground, difficult because your pack, rifle and clothing hang up, I wasn't far enough off the ground for safety in that example I gave you. And I qualified my statement about seventeen rounds being ridiculous. If for example this officer neutralized the aggressor on the second round fired, and by that I mean, he was on the ground now and immobile, then IMO, pumping fifteen more rounds into him is ridiculous. But I suggest we're wasting time with too many ifs right now, I'm sure you agree.
 
Well here we go. Looks like the cops were flat out lying and covering their asses.

Mom of man killed by St. Louis cop: He was unarmed

Turns out that a more thorough investigation by reliable sources prove that the kid had a sandwich, not a gun.

Oh. My. God. She knows this how exactly?

What's comical is how I also saw that on the MSNBC home page. They are actually reporting on his dear mama's assertion that he was holding a sandwich, not a gun. Amazing.
 
After a chase on foot, one of the teens approached the officer "in an aggressive manner," Dotson said, and refused to stop or surrender.

The two got into a "physical alteration" that pulled off the suspect's gray-hooded sweater. As the teenager ran away, grabbing at his waist, Dotson said, the officer felt that the teenager was carry a firearm.

Dotson said, however, that the unidentified officer, a six-year veteran of the St. Louis police force, did not open fire because "he wanted to be certain it was a gun."

At one point, he said, the suspect turned and "pointed the gun at the officer and fired at least three rounds at the officer." He said the suspect tried to continue firing, but his gun jammed.

The officer responded by firing at least 17 rounds at the suspect, killing him. The officer was not injured.

Dotson said a 9mm Ruger handgun, allegedly belonging to the suspect, was recovered at the scene and a forensics search located three projectiles that had been fired at the officer.

"An investigation will decide if the officer's behavior was appropriate," the police chief told reporters.

Dotson did not identify the victim but said he "was no stranger to law enforcement."

Protests erupt in St. Louis after cop kills black teen
 
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According to the reports I've read, the assailant got off 3 rounds before his gun jammed. This underscores the importance of using quality ammo, tested by you personally under controlled conditions at a range to get an idea of its reliability in your particular firearm, and keeping the weapon clean via regular disassembly, swabbing, and using good quality cleaner such as Hoppes or Frog Lube according to the manufacturer's directions. It also shows the utility of practicing clearing jams, and to carry a rod of sufficient length and strength for clearing the occasional hot round. A six inch wood dowel in a diameter small enough to fit down the barrel works well, but a screwdriver of the proper dimensions for the gun would work as well.

Of course, it really shows that one shouldn't randomly fire at police officers. The officer needing seventeen rounds in a dynamic situation at night while under fire isn't surprising at all. People have an absurd Hollywood driven notion of the accuracy and stopping power of handguns. Sure, you can put 9/10 inside the nines at 15 yards in a well lit firing range after assuming the optimal shooting stance. It's a bit different under low-light, or worse yet variable light, conditions against a moving target shooting back.
 
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