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Chimpanzees' rights case argued at New York appeals court hearing

recalcitrant

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Chimpanzees' rights case argued at New York appeals court hearing - CBS News

Every chimp should go to school and vote in elections and get food stamps and own a gun and be read their miranda rights when being put under arrest

reasonable person who hasn't been acquainted with me yet said:
nobody is arguing that

Yeah well I AM! Steven Wise isn't going far enough!

Knowing the republicans though they'll make polling times difficult to dolphins and make dolphins wait in line for like 12 hours and suggest dolphins to get voter ID that they just can't get for some reason.

Are we ready though for all the illegal alien dolphins from mexico swimming up to our coasts?
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

pUbsZ.jpg


More seriously, however, no. They do not.

This isn't to say that one should be cruel to them. However, the idea that they are deserving of "human rights" is simply absurd.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

An octopus is smarter.



And they taste delicious.



True story.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

God no.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

As soon as chimps are able to grasp the concept of 'rights', then they will be ready to have rights of their own. Until then it is only tossed about by humans who really haven't grasped the concept all that well either.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

pUbsZ.jpg


More seriously, however, no. They do not.

This isn't to say that one should be cruel to them. However, the idea that they are deserving of "human rights" is simply absurd.

At the same time, when you teach them sign language they can communicate with us. They also have an ego and can think of the self in abstract terms. I don't know enough to say that they should have human rights, but they're eerily enough like us that I don't think the question is absurd.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

As soon as chimps are able to grasp the concept of 'rights', then they will be ready to have rights of their own. Until then it is only tossed about by humans who really haven't grasped the concept all that well either.

Serious question: at what age are humans capable of grasping the concept of rights?
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

At the same time, when you teach them sign language they can communicate with us. They also have an ego and can think of the self in abstract terms. I don't know enough to say that they should have human rights, but they're eerily enough like us that I don't think the question is absurd.
So you think it necessary for a chimp to have freedom of speech? Perhaps the religious exercise of chimps needs to be protected in some way? Is the Chimp Free Press in danger of being shut down? Maybe the right to bear arms? I am a little confused as to which rights you think might be necessary for a chimp to survive as a chimp.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Chimpanzees' rights case argued at New York appeals court hearing - CBS News

Every chimp should go to school and vote in elections and get food stamps and own a gun and be read their miranda rights when being put under arrest



Yeah well I AM! Steven Wise isn't going far enough!

Knowing the republicans though they'll make polling times difficult to dolphins and make dolphins wait in line for like 12 hours and suggest dolphins to get voter ID that they just can't get for some reason.

Are we ready though for all the illegal alien dolphins from mexico swimming up to our coasts?

At the same time, when you teach them sign language they can communicate with us. They also have an ego and can think of the self in abstract terms. I don't know enough to say that they should have human rights, but they're eerily enough like us that I don't think the question is absurd.

We the crazy people of the United States of America ...
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Serious question: at what age are humans capable of grasping the concept of rights?
I'm not sure. But it is not the age of a human that determines rights but that they are human. Human nature require rights. Rational animals live by rational thought. Rights are those things that separate the rational from the irrational; that allow man to live by reason and not be ruled by brut force.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Serious question: at what age are humans capable of grasping the concept of rights?

At what age are humans held accountable for societal laws?
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Chimps eat each other, and throw their own poop at each other.



If they get rights, then so to do they become held accountable for their actions.


I, for one, don't want to pay state funded zoos....er, JAILS, to keep them locked up.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

At what age are humans held accountable for societal laws?

Depends...

Age of criminal responsibility

There is no uniform national age from which a child is accountable in the juvenile court system; this varies between states, with many setting 10 as the minimum.[6] Not all minors who commit a crime are committed to juvenile (or adult) court.

Juvenile court - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

So you think it necessary for a chimp to have freedom of speech? Perhaps the religious exercise of chimps needs to be protected in some way? Is the Chimp Free Press in danger of being shut down? Maybe the right to bear arms?

With certain limitations, children have freedom of speech. I don't know of any chimp religion, though I don't see how that or the absence of it changes anything. It's not certain what chimps would want to report in a newspaper. Children aren't allowed to do lots of things until they're adults.

I am a little confused as to which rights you think might be necessary for a chimp to survive as a chimp.

Me too. There isn't exactly a precedent for this in Western culture (though plenty of it in Hindu culture. For a real head trip, watch the documentaries on India on Netflix). All I can say is their level of abstract thinking, acknowledgment of the self and communication puts them on a different tier than other animals.

Edit: the documentaries are called Wildest India. They're a real kick, so if you can stand documentaries I would definitely give them a chance.
 
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Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Chimpanzees' rights case argued at New York appeals court hearing - CBS News

Every chimp should go to school and vote in elections and get food stamps and own a gun and be read their miranda rights when being put under arrest



Yeah well I AM! Steven Wise isn't going far enough!

Knowing the republicans though they'll make polling times difficult to dolphins and make dolphins wait in line for like 12 hours and suggest dolphins to get voter ID that they just can't get for some reason.

Are we ready though for all the illegal alien dolphins from mexico swimming up to our coasts?

I suppose you just can't make things like this up. This has to be a joke with a laugh line in there someplace.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

I'm not sure. But it is not the age of a human that determines rights but that they are human. Human nature require rights. Rational animals live by rational thought. Rights are those things that separate the rational from the irrational; that allow man to live by reason and not be ruled by brut force.

Are you saying that it is human nature or our DNA that makes us human?
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

At the same time, when you teach them sign language they can communicate with us. They also have an ego and can think of the self in abstract terms. I don't know enough to say that they should have human rights, but they're eerily enough like us that I don't think the question is absurd.

The exact degree to which they possess any of those things is ultimately debatable.

However, in any case, I would agree that they have the "right" not to be treated with wanton cruelty, as with any other living creature. I simply wouldn't say that they are deserving of "human rights," per se.

I mean... Let's face it, if you found yourself on a lifeboat with five people, a chimpanzee, and no food to eat, it certainly wouldn't be a human being who "took one for the team" first. :lol:
 
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Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

It's a ridiculous concept, but it's not granting legal rights, so much as just enabling representation. It'll prevent animal cruelty, so I'm not actually against it.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Are you saying that it is human nature or our DNA that makes us human?
Our DNA makes us human, and as humans we have a particular nature. Humans are rational, moral beings that require a rational, moral code of survival. Chimps can survive as chimps without either. We cant.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Chimpanzees' rights case argued at New York appeals court hearing - CBS News

Every chimp should go to school and vote in elections and get food stamps and own a gun and be read their miranda rights when being put under arrest



Yeah well I AM! Steven Wise isn't going far enough!

Knowing the republicans though they'll make polling times difficult to dolphins and make dolphins wait in line for like 12 hours and suggest dolphins to get voter ID that they just can't get for some reason.

Are we ready though for all the illegal alien dolphins from mexico swimming up to our coasts?

Well, do u want a bunch of chimps running around like monkeys run around India?..

Also, you do realize that all primates can be quite vicious? who are you going to sue when some ape bites your nose off - the government?
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Our DNA makes us human, and as humans we have a particular nature. Humans are rational, moral beings that require a rational, moral code of survival. Chimps can survive as chimps without either. We cant.

Chimps form social groups and at time those social groups or "gangs" go to war...

Chimps are pretty damn smart - just too stupid to be in control of their emotions - especially when drunk or high.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

The exact degree to which they possess any of these things is ultimately debatable.

However, in any case, I would agree that they have the "right" not to be treated with wanton cruelty, as with any other living creature. I simply wouldn't say that they are deserving of "human rights," per se.

I mean... Let's face it, if you found yourself on a lifeboat with five people, a chimpanzee, and no food to eat, it certainly wouldn't be a human being who "took one for the team" first. :lol:

I know, but as I suggested to Fletch, they deserve a category that, while not human, per se, is definitely above other animals.

There's reasoning:

(PhysOrg.com) -- A new study conducted by researchers from the Max Planck Institute in Germany, with results published in PLoS ONE, shows that some apes are capable of using insightful reasoning to achieve goals. When presented with a peanut floating in a tube a quarter filled with water, some chimpanzees were able to figure out that they could raise the water level, and hence the peanut, by filling their mouths with water from a nearby dispenser, then spitting it into the tube. Doing so enough times, raised the floating peanut to such a level that they were eventually able to retrieve and eat it.

Study shows chimps capable of insightful reasoning ability

Communication:
Besides humans, the research shows that chimps are the only animals with a system of intentional communication, where one individual sends a message to another individual.

The 66 gestures which show how chimpanzees communicate - Telegraph

Communication with humans using ASL:

A female chimpanzee named Washoe kicked off man's earnest quest to teach chimps human language. She was born in Africa in 1965 and eventually taken to Washoe County, Nev. (her namesake); that's where Washoe became the subject of cognitive research performed by Allen and Beatrix Gardener. The chimp wowed the world when she successfully learned American Sign Language, which had never happened before with a nonhuman primate. Washoe then passed her skills on to her adopted son Loulis, and by the time she died in 2007, Washoe had mastered around 130 signs [source: Carey].

HowStuffWorks "Chimpanzee Communication"

They're self aware:

Chimpanzees are self-aware and can anticipate the impact of their actions on the environment around them, an ability once thought to be uniquely human, according to a study released Wednesday.

The findings, reported in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B, challenge assumptions about the boundary between human and non-human, and shed light on the evolutionary origins of consciousness, the researchers said.

Chimps Are Self Aware : Discovery News

And finally, the very foundation one would need for discerning right from wrong:
Before we can accept that animals have a sense of right and wrong, we need to accept that they have some form of intelligence and can understand intention and consequences. Because it's difficult to measure the motivation behind animal actions, experts are focusing on species that are considered highly intelligent, like chimpanzees. In studies, scientists have found that chimpanzees and other primates can make a distinction between "accidental" and "deliberate" actions [source: Ross]. This could mean some animals are able to understand the meaning behind some actions (accidentally bumping into another animal versus attacking the other animal on purpose), which could explain why their reactions to these things are different.

Hauser is not the only one who believes morals are part of our genetic makeup. Professor Marc Bekoff, from the University of Colorado, says chimpanzees have a sense of justice (they set wrongs straight within their own communities) and dolphins have shown empathy by rescuing swimmers in distress [source: Daily Mail]. He believes a basic sense of morality is innate to all mammals but stronger in species that live in tight-knit groups. Bekoff's research on canids (especially wolves and coyotes) has shown that some animals have a sense of fairness and can become distressed if they perceive they're being treated unfairly by others, be it humans or members of their own packs [source: Wolchover].

Big Question: Do animals have a sense of right and wrong? : Discovery Channel
 
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Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

I know, but as I suggested to Fletch, they deserve a category that, while not human, per se, is definitely above other animals.

There's reasoning:



Study shows chimps capable of insightful reasoning ability

Communication:


The 66 gestures which show how chimpanzees communicate - Telegraph

Communication with humans using ASL:



HowStuffWorks "Chimpanzee Communication"

They're self aware:



Chimps Are Self Aware : Discovery News

And finally, the very foundation one would need for discerning right from wrong:


Big Question: Do animals have a sense of right and wrong? : Discovery Channel
Chimps are pretty smart, but rights are meaningless to them. They don't understand the concept and would not, therefore, respect the rights of man. Granting 'rights' to animals is simply a way to limit the behavior of man. It would place no limitations on the animal. Granting 'rights' to a shark would forbid man from hunting them down. It would not do much to protect you, however, if you were splashing around in the ocean and a hungry shark happened by.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

Chimps are pretty smart, but rights are meaningless to them. They don't understand the concept and would not, therefore, respect the rights of man. Granting 'rights' to animals is simply a way to limit the behavior of man. It would place no limitations on the animal. Granting 'rights' to a shark would forbid man from hunting them down. It would not do much to protect you, however, if you were splashing around in the ocean and a hungry shark happened by.

If there are no limitations on man, then it's pointless to look down on the animal for displaying an equal absence of limitations.
 
Re: Do chimps deserve the same basic rights as people?

I know, but as I suggested to Fletch, they deserve a category that, while not human, per se, is definitely above other animals.

There's reasoning:



Study shows chimps capable of insightful reasoning ability

Communication:


The 66 gestures which show how chimpanzees communicate - Telegraph

Communication with humans using ASL:



HowStuffWorks "Chimpanzee Communication"

They're self aware:



Chimps Are Self Aware : Discovery News

And finally, the very foundation one would need for discerning right from wrong:


Big Question: Do animals have a sense of right and wrong? : Discovery Channel

Dolphins are way more intelligent than primates - even Chimps. They clearly show that when they go bat**** on humans for mistreating them... They damn well know they're being mocked then they go crazy...
 
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