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Thread: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoplesí Day

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoplesí Day

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    While I agree that Columbus was a total douche, I am pretty sure these natives have not progressed into modern times yet:
    Either have these guys? So what?

    stock-footage-kenya-circa-masai-warriors-perform-a-ritual-dance-circa-in-kenya.jpg

    And nor have these football fans...

    _59991631_013422552-1.jpg

    I was obviously referring to the Mayans, Aztecs and Incans that were advanced civilizations.
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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoplesí Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    If it weren't for carving some giant heads into a mountain, is there anything in that state anyone would care about?
    Sturgis.
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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoplesí Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    First off, a lot of that is exaggerated. The Europeans hardly set up "death camps" or went on random killing sprees when they landed in the Americas. They simply didn't have the numbers, by and large.

    The biggest killer was disease. Frankly, those diseases were so virulent, and spread so fast, that the vast majority of the native population probably died of second, third, or fourth hand exposure without ever having seen a single European person in the flesh.

    We know for fact, for example, that the native civilizations living along the Mississippi river went all but extinct long before European explorers ever arrived, because all we found when did eventually explore these areas were a few scattered tribes, and the ruins that the larger civilizations those tribes once belonged to had left behind in the pandemic's aftermath.

    Hell! Even where the infamous Cortez is concerned, all he really did was help the native city states in the area he explored to rebel against their brutal Aztec overlords in return for oaths of fealty to Spain.

    Now, granted, due to the effects of disease, economic ignorance, and bigotry, the Spaniards did sort of botch their governorship of the area afterwards. However, even then, it was never really "wholesale slaughter" so much as simple incompetence.
    Actually, I know that disease was responsible for the majority of it, and am (with the exception of the infamous pox blanket incident) attributing their deaths to a super large scale (and really grim) "oopsie." This still doesn't mitigate forced enslavement, forced conversions, conquests or brutal executions of those who rebelled. Also, as you've opened this up from Columbus to to Europeans in general, are you sure you really want to talk about what happened in North America as well? Because stats start to get much more specific as time goes on.

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoplesí Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Now, granted, due to the effects of disease, economic ignorance, and bigotry, the Spaniards did sort of botch their governorship of the area afterwards. However, even then, it was never really "wholesale slaughter" so much as simple incompetence.
    Perfect! Why don't we celebrate "Simple Incompetence Day" then!

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoplesí Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Either have these guys? So what?

    stock-footage-kenya-circa-masai-warriors-perform-a-ritual-dance-circa-in-kenya.jpg

    And nor have these football fans...

    _59991631_013422552-1.jpg

    I was obviously referring to the Mayans, Aztecs and Incans that were advanced civilizations.
    I know and I was obviously being tongue-in-cheek.
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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoplesí Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Either have these guys? So what?

    stock-footage-kenya-circa-masai-warriors-perform-a-ritual-dance-circa-in-kenya.jpg

    And nor have these football fans...

    _59991631_013422552-1.jpg

    I was obviously referring to the Mayans, Aztecs and Incans that were advanced civilizations.
    When Capt. Cook arrived on the coast of BC the natives there lived better, healthier, easier lives than the average crewman from Resolution.
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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoplesí Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    And if you really feel so bad about that, perhaps you all should give the land back and move to Europe.
    .
    It's not so much that I feel bad about it as that I don't believe we need to celebrate it.

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoplesí Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Um, they were bloody thirsty barbarians. The Native American population (in the 48 states) went from an average of twelve million to some 230,000 by the 20th century, three million died under Columbus, and Cortez himself killed about 270,000 natives. I'm well aware that the Natives went to war with each other, and some civilizations did indeed practice human sacrifice, but it was the Europeans who decimated them. The only reason to push the idea (within the context of Columbus day only) of the Native Americans practicing warfare is only to mitigate the severity of the Europeans' actions.
    In all fairness most of the deaths of Native Americans were due to the diseases like smallpox we brought over with us.
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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoplesí Day

    In the 19th century, Manifest Destiny was the widely held belief in the United States that American settlers were destined to expand throughout the continent. Historians have for the most part agreed that there are three basic themes to Manifest Destiny:

    The special virtues of the American people and their institutions;
    America's mission to redeem and remake the west in the image of agrarian America;
    An irresistible destiny to accomplish this essential duty.

    I'm not sure I see how what we're doing in the world now is much different? I believe the American way is the best, especially for my taste, but it shouldn't be forced.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoplesí Day

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    In all fairness most of the deaths of Native Americans were due to the diseases like smallpox we brought over with us.
    Post 73.

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