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Thread: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Generally speaking, not really. Some tribes might have been open to trade at first. However, once it became clear that the Europeans were planning on staying permanently, things would often turn violent.

    Besides which, none of this changes the fact that any proposed "Indigenous Peoples Day" only acknowledges the native side of the equation while ignoring Europeans entirely.

    What the Hell kind of sense does that make?



    How does this justify pushing the historically and factually inaccurate idea that natives were peace loving innocents, while Europeans were all murderous barbarians?

    That's simply not how it happened.
    Um, they were bloody thirsty barbarians. The Native American population (in the 48 states) went from an average of twelve million to some 230,000 by the 20th century, three million died under Columbus, and Cortez himself killed about 270,000 natives. I'm well aware that the Natives went to war with each other, and some civilizations did indeed practice human sacrifice, but it was the Europeans who decimated them. The only reason to push the idea (within the context of Columbus day only) of the Native Americans practicing warfare is only to mitigate the severity of the Europeans' actions.

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    No one is pushing that.

    See my respons eto Kalstang.

    Don't give a **** what the natives did to themselves for centuries, nothing justifies the millions killed by the Europeans.

    I'm European and Native American by the way, do not make false dichotomies when it comes to the relationship of the Europeans and Natives (at times). The European backstab was horrid, accept that, it is not factually inaccurate in any way.
    And I'm 1/16 Cherokee, dude. The simple fact of the matter is that you don't have to sh*t all over one heritage to honor the other. There is room enough for both.

    At the end of the day, all idiotic PC crap like replacing Columbus Day with "Indigenous Peoples Day" accomplishes to perpetuate useless and self-indulgent "white guilt."

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Practically every other holiday is a European holiday. What difference does it make that Seattle decided to give Native Americans one day? Did you personally ever celebrate Columbus Day anyway? I mean hell it ain't like they renamed Independence Day or Easter.
    It's the principle behind the thing. If you feel native peoples need their own holiday, make one for them.

    There's really no reason to try and rewrite history to make the European discovery of the Americas out to be some kind of heinous tragedy that needs to live in infamy.

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

    So ... Over five hundred years ago...An Italian sets sail to in the El Nino, the Pinto and the Santa Barbara and gets lost on his way to India to get spices...He bumps into a whole hemisphere he didn't know was there, thought he made it to India which he missed by over twelve thousand miles and he exploited and slaughtered the indigenous people he incorrectly called Indians to bring back gold for the Queen of Spain...
    Tell be again why my ****in' bank is closed...

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Um, they were bloody thirsty barbarians. The Native American population (in the 48 states) went from an average of twelve million to some 230,000 by the 20th century, three million died under Columbus, and Cortez himself killed about 270,000 natives. I'm well aware that the Natives went to war with each other, and some civilizations did indeed practice human sacrifice, but it was the Europeans who decimated them. The only reason to push the idea (within the context of Columbus day only) of the Native Americans practicing warfare is only to mitigate the severity of the Europeans' actions.
    Those "civilized" Europeans did a pretty good job of warring and sacrificing each other before they came here too.

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    It's the principle behind the thing. If you feel native peoples need their own holiday, make one for them.

    There's really no reason to try and rewrite history to make the European discovery of the Americas out to be some kind of heinous tragedy that needs to live in infamy.
    How does renaming Columbus Day, Indigenous Peoples Day do that? The way I see it, they probably thought we have this bank holiday named after a total douchebag, why don't we give it to the Native Americans instead being they don't have one.

    I don't get the constant "culture wars" uproar. I don't get Columbus Day off, the kids don't get it out of school. Unless I work for a bank some day I will never get it off. I don't celebrate the holiday, they could have named it White Men Are Terrible Day for all I care as it would not impact my life in anyway just the same.
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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Um, they were bloody thirsty barbarians. The Native American population (in the 48 states) went from an average of twelve million to some 230,000 by the 20th century, three million died under Columbus, and Cortez himself killed about 270,000 natives. I'm well aware that the Natives went to war with each other, and some civilizations did indeed practice human sacrifice, but it was the Europeans who decimated them. The only reason to push the idea (within the context of Columbus day only) of the Native Americans practicing warfare is only to mitigate the severity of the Europeans' actions.
    First off, a lot of that is exaggerated. The Europeans hardly set up "death camps" or went on random killing sprees when they landed in the Americas. They simply didn't have the numbers, by and large.

    The biggest killer was disease. Frankly, those diseases were so virulent, and spread so fast, that the vast majority of the native population probably died of second, third, or fourth hand exposure without ever having seen a single European person in the flesh.

    We know for fact, for example, that the native civilizations living along the Mississippi river went all but extinct long before European explorers ever arrived, because all we found when did eventually explore these areas were a few scattered tribes, and the ruins that the larger civilizations to which those tribes once belonged had left behind in the pandemic's aftermath.

    Hell! Even where the infamous Cortez is concerned, all he really did was help the native city states in the area he explored to rebel against their brutal Aztec overlords in return for oaths of fealty to Spain.

    Now, granted, due to the effects of disease, economic ignorance, and bigotry, the Spaniards did sort of botch their governorship of the area afterwards. However, even then, it was never really "wholesale slaughter" so much as simple incompetence.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 10-07-14 at 11:39 PM.

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post

    There's really no reason to try and rewrite history to make the European discovery of the Americas out to be some kind of heinous tragedy that needs to live in infamy.
    Sure there is ...that is what it was...

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Um, they were bloody thirsty barbarians. The Native American population (in the 48 states) went from an average of twelve million to some 230,000 by the 20th century, three million died under Columbus, and Cortez himself killed about 270,000 natives. I'm well aware that the Natives went to war with each other, and some civilizations did indeed practice human sacrifice, but it was the Europeans who decimated them. The only reason to push the idea (within the context of Columbus day only) of the Native Americans practicing warfare is only to mitigate the severity of the Europeans' actions.
    The same guy who claimed that Columbus was responsible for three million deaths claimed that Spain had killed 15 million in the span of 40 years on the main continent. Basically the entire population of the Americas at the time.

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    There's really no reason to try and rewrite history to make the European discovery of the Americas out to be some kind of heinous tragedy that needs to live in infamy.
    No need to rewrite history, no. History already shows that.

    Like, do you not understand that our ancestors ****ing exterminated the Native Americans?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    Sure there is ...that is what it was...
    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    No need to rewrite history, no. History already shows that.

    Like, do you not understand that our ancestors ****ing exterminated the Native Americans?
    And if you really feel so bad about that, perhaps you all should give the land back and move to Europe.

    No?

    Then shut up about it.

    The "Oh, woe is me! Why am I such an evil white person!?" routine is trite, dated, and frankly insulting to the peoples you claim to be honoring.

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