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Thread: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

  1. #141
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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    You should take those tumblrite talking points outta here before you make a fool of yourself.
    Fine then, you tell me why you could possibly have a problem with this change.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Fine then, you tell me why you could possibly have a problem with this change.
    I've already explained why. It's done on false premises to make some butt-hurt people less butt-hurt. It's basically a lot of people crying that they're offended so to stop making them cry that much, Seattle made this concession. Gave it to them. And president Fawn Sharp of the amerindians welcomed this change as being some great thing when in fact, it's just another sign of the fact that people cannot distinguish between ideals and people who personify ideals and people themselves.


    You don't celebrate Columbus the man, you celebrate the ideal that he stands for. Adventure, bravery, exploration. Going towards a greater goal. Sure, his goal was to find a route to India and to see how much it'll take to do that, but that's not the point. The point is he tried to do something nobody thought he could do. He may not have been american, but he did the most american thing possible, took a chance for the promise of something greater.

    I cannot understand why you would seek to dismember that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I enjoy that Rainman's argument now depends on "Look at how brave he was!" - Um, Columbus wasn't special. There are literally hundreds of explorers out there who traveled and got lost looking for India. The difference between him and other however is that:

    A) He lied to his crew because he literally didn't know where they were.
    B) Once he arrived on land and saw Natives, he called them Indians because again he didn't know where he was.
    C) He claimed the land as belonging to Spain and because the first colonizer. Something which the US would later rebuke on its territory and later on the second island he determined belonged to Spain (Cuba).

    Why are we celebrating a lost Italian who accidentally stumbled into the Americas and whose claims we'd later fight against?

    This is why. For why I wrote above.
    I kept writing this but I'll write it again and again.

    The problem with you is that you subscribe to the deadbeat ideology of getting offended.
    Last edited by Rainman05; 10-08-14 at 12:22 PM.

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I think this thread demonstrates nicely what the right wing means when they talk about political correctness. It seems like giving honor to non-whites or to those who are not part of the white-positive narrative is simply political correctness. Giving honor to non-Christians or to those who are not part of the Christian-positive narrative is simply political correctness. Giving honor to women or to those who are not part of the male-positive narrative is simply political correctness.
    No, but we're not exactly keen on the Left's masturbatory self-loathing obsession with tearing whites, Christians, and men down in order to build the other groups you mention up.

    Again, if you want to honor native peoples, honor native peoples. There are plenty of days on the calendar which could easily accommodate such a holiday.

    There's no reason to deliberately go out of one's way to sh*t all over European colonists, or the things that they and their descendants have accomplished, in the process of doing so. We have just as much right to be here, and honor our heritage and history, as anyone else.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 10-08-14 at 01:26 PM.

  4. #144
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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    No, it was only when it started to be warped by the "social-justice" people who are generally people at the bottom of the intellectual totem poll,


    Columbus is celebrated for his greatness, not for whatever deficiencies he had or reprehensible deeds he's done.
    What... greatness? You keep repeating this nonsense as if it makes it true. He thought he'd reached Asia. He literally had no clue there was another continent here. The Earth had been proven as round well over 1500 years before. He couldn't have discovered a continent where millions of people already had civilizations on. So what is there left? He established the idea of colonialism, which if you remember the US eventually fought to get rid of.

    So take your cultist propaganda out of here because you are outmatched. Reality and truth are not on your side no matter how much you try and spin it.
    4 pages of you whining and moaning about how great Columbus was when his only accomplishment is establishing colonialism.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post

    What... greatness? You keep repeating this nonsense as if it makes it true. He thought he'd reached Asia. He literally had no clue there was another continent here. The Earth had been proven as round well over 1500 years before. He couldn't have discovered a continent where millions of people already had civilizations on. So what is there left? He established the idea of colonialism, which if you remember the US eventually fought to get rid of.

    4 pages of you whining and moaning about how great Columbus was when his only accomplishment is establishing colonialism.
    As I said, you are a cultist. And you don't reply to the comment in full.
    This makes any discussion with you impossible because you are dishonest.

  6. #146
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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Lmao, what a nonsensical argument. Mayan culture is still existent. So is Huichol culture. So is Iroquois culture. They didn't cease to exist. Have you ever taken a history class?
    Yah-huh.

    Where? In a few tribes out in the middle of no where?

    No one cares, dude. Those groups are outliers, who have had little to no influence in shaping the majority culture which now exists in the Americas.

    Again, it simply happens to be the case that that culture is overwhelming based around the history and traditions of the European colonists who took over the region, not the native peoples they conquered. Deal with it.

    Good grief, third time I have to explain this to you: Something happening for which a segment of society wouldn't be here today is not enough of a reason to celebrate it. Are you following this yet? Or do I have to make it clearer.
    I'm sorry, but I simply disagree. There is plenty of reason to celebrate.

    Hell! By your logic, why "celebrate" anything at all? There is no event in all of history which has purely served altruistic interests without having negative repercussions for someone else.

    That is simply the nature of the world, and it's not going to change any time soon.

    Lmao, neither were any of those examples I posted. Something positive can be linked to all of them if one makes enough of a superficial effort.
    To Hilter, Stalin, and the Holocaust?

    You're joking, right?

    Great, let Europeans celebrate it. You however aren't an European and literally have nothing to do with the discovery itself. While you're at it, quit trying to connect yourself to it and the complaining when others do the same.
    To the contrary, I am of European descent, and so is my culture.

    Do you imagine that we both simply materialized out of thin air?

    I can and will honor that heritage. If you don't like it, tough sh*t.

    You may, we as a country don't. Don't be purposely obtuse. It'll add to your already weak arguments about "But it happened in history!"

    Lmao, you're being silly now. The Reconquista ended the same exact year Columbus reached the Americas. Why isn't that celebrated along with Columbus' non-discovery? Now, whether you want to celebrate it in an attempt to sound like you've made a case, it's fine. However, it's the last stance of a see through position that has been refuted on various grounds.
    Are you seriously asking why we celebrate events that happened in the Americas and directly resulted in the creation of our country, and not events that happened half a world away, and did not?

    Remind me again, who is being "obtuse" here?

    Reasons to celebrate it, their refutations, and the questions you've been unable to answer:

    1. Get over it.
    A) Ummm... get over the fact it happened? Irrelevant to the question of whether it should be celebrated.

    2. It happened in history and it's important!
    So are a multitude of other events that don't get celebrated. Why is this one so special.

    3. He discovered the Americas!
    Top 5 Misconceptions About Columbus | Christopher Columbus & Intrepid Explorers | Columbus Day | Flat-Earth Myth & Who Discovered the Americas

    Yes, let's ignore the fact that millions of humans already inhabited this land later to be called the Americas, having discovered it millennia before. And let's ignore that whole Leif Ericson voyage to Greenland and modern-day Canada around 1000 C.M.E. If Columbus discovered America, he himself didn't know. Until his death he claimed to have landed in Asia, even though most navigators knew he didn't. [Top 10 Intrepid Explorers]
    4. The stuff that happened after he arrived was positive!
    Um... yes... positive stuff does happen and it should be examined on its own merits. Columbus' arrival set in motion colonization and enslavement. That Henry Ford would later create the F1 has nothing to do with that.

    5. Europeans are here!
    And... what? So are Germans. Should we celebrate Hitler's invasion of Poland? Without it, WWII would have never happened and the decision to create a state for Jews wouldn't have either! See how simplistic the line of reason you're using is?
    You keep reposting this frantic screed of your's like it actually means something.

    I'm afraid you are mistaken.

  7. #147
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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    And if you really feel so bad about that, perhaps you all should give the land back and move to Europe.

    No?

    Then shut up about it.

    The "Oh, woe is me! Why am I such an evil white person!?" routine is trite, dated, and frankly insulting to the peoples you claim to be honoring.
    My ancestors did that, not me. I am not evil, don't know where you got that idea. Acknowledging the darkness in our history is not calling you evil. It's how we make sure we avoid such evil in the future. Why do you wish to downplay our nation's past crimes? Why do you want to hide that history?

    maybe you are just projecting your own white guilt on to me.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    No, but we're not exactly keen on the Left's masturbatory self-loathing obsession with tearing whites, Christians, and men down in order to build the other groups you mention up.

    Again, if you want to honor native peoples, honor native peoples. There are plenty of days on the calendar which could easily accommodate such a holiday.

    There's no reason to deliberately go out of one's way to sh*t all over European colonists, or the things that they and their descendants have accomplished, in the process of doing so. We have just as much right to be here, and honor our heritage and history, as anyone else.
    Self loathing? I don't loath myself because of something my ancestors did. More projection.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    My ancestors did that, not me. I am not evil, don't know where you got that ideal maybe you are just projecting your own white guilt on to me.
    Then give the land that your "evil" ancestors took back, if you are so ashamed of it.

    I'm sorry, but it's just that simple.

    Damning the deeds of your forebearers, while living a cushy comfortable life that is only possible in the first place because of the things that they accomplished, is the very height of self-serving hypocrisy. It allows you to feel self-righteous, smug, and self-satisfied while still enjoying all the spoils of the conquests which brought our society to where it is currently in the first place, and not doing anything whatsoever to actually rectify the "wrongs" to which you claim to be opposed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Self loathing? I don't loath myself because of something my ancestors did. More projection.
    If one loathes their ancestors and their heritage, by extension, they loathe themselves.

    Do you imagine that you simply sprung from some hole in ground without precedent?

    You are a product of, and heir to, the European socio-cultural heritage you claim to despise regardless of whether you like that fact or not.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 10-08-14 at 01:47 PM.

  10. #150
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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Then give the land that your "evil" ancestors took back, if you are so ashamed of it.

    I'm sorry, but it's just that simple.

    Damning the deeds of your forebearers, while living a cushy comfortable life that is only able to exist in the first place because of the things that they accomplished, is the very height of self-serving hypocrisy. It allows you to feel self-righteous, smug, and self-satisfied while still enjoying all the spoils of the conquests which brought our society to where it is currently in the first place, and not doing anything whatsoever to actually rectify the "wrongs" to which you claim to be opposed.



    If one loathes their ancestors and their heritage, by extension, they loathe themselves.

    Do you imagine that you simply sprung from some hole in ground without precedent?
    I don't loathe you, or white people, or America, or myself. You are the only one who has used the word. Acknowledging the past isn't damning the present. When you read about World War II, are you filled with hate for present-day Germans? Is it an attack on Germany? Do Germans who loathe Hitler also loathe themselves? I can condemn the actions of Genghis Khan, is that me also hating everyone descended from him? (Which, it turns out, is a huge percentage of the population because that guy got around)

    If we are following up your logic, any nation with any history of evil must make reparations for that evil. Why do you believe that? You're basically saying "nah uh, America never did anything evil because if they did, I'd have to feel guilty." News flash, buddy. Ameica's history is pretty ****ed up. If that makes you feel the need to give up your land, feel free to do so. But don't sit here and pretend it didn't happen.

    Either that, or explain to me why you aren't damning genocide. Why don't you oppose genocide?
    Last edited by Deuce; 10-08-14 at 01:52 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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