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Thread: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoplesí Day

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoplesí Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    No, that's a day honoring the secession of the Thirteen Colonies from Great Britain, which would eventually lead to formation of the United States of America.

    It took place several hundred years after Europeans had already colonized the Americas.
    I always got the impression that conservatives wanted fewer holidays not more.
    You are the exception.
    If we really wanted to honor the first Europeans here we should create a Leif Erickson day.

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoplesí Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Give the natives their own holiday then.
    Or we could just save up on holidays and replace the ones where we celebrate psychopathic european men.

    The implication of replacing a holiday honoring the European discovery of the Americas with a holiday only honoring native peoples is that the European discovery of the Americas was a mistake, and that we shouldn't be here.
    Europeans didn't discover America. There were people already living on it. As a matter of fact, Europeans can't discover a land where people are already living. Did they discover Australia? Asia? No. They didn't. The people who lived there and had homes there did. So what do we have left? Columbus Day as a holiday where white people celebrate the day a psychopathic European decided to kill off Native Americans and divide their lands as the Europeans saw fit.

    I don't know about you, but I, for one, find that to be insulting.
    So do I. We shouldn't be in the business of celebrating the time murderous Europeans accidentally found out that there were other continents and then decided they belonged to Europe.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoplesí Day

    Furthermore how is this land anymore THEIR land than mine? I'm a US citizen and was born here in 1980 - this is my home and this is my country....I did nothing to no one.

    I have just as much of a right to this land as any Inuit or Native - they don't own a damn thing except for tax-free casinos and reservations - a man my age owes nothing. This is my land as it is as much as the delusional believe it is.. I'm not a regulator or a cowboy- I'm a US citizen, and the "Mexicans" who are actually Spaniards should get punched in the face for even insisting that they "own land" - I suppose property ownership is a different animal - but a thesis or book could be wrote on that concept alone.

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoplesí Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    It not exactly hard to live a "healthier, easier" life than some scurvy ridden sailor who's been stuffed into a leaky, undersized floating wooden box in the middle of the ocean for the last six to eight months with nothing but maggot ridden half-rotten 18th century military rations to eat.
    I meant when they were at home.

    1777: Captain Cook at Nootka Sound

    nootka.jpg

    London at that time...

    oxford street.jpg
    "I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid people. I meant that stupid people are generally Conservatives."
    -John Stuart Mill-

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoplesí Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    I always got the impression that conservatives wanted fewer holidays not more.
    You are the exception.
    If we really wanted to honor the first Europeans here we should create a Leif Erickson day.
    Nevermind ..it's already here...
    October 9th...Perfect!
    Leif Erikson Day - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoplesí Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    I always got the impression that conservatives wanted fewer holidays not more.
    You are the exception.
    If we really wanted to honor the first Europeans here we should create a Leif Erickson day.
    That actually already exists.

    Leif Erikson Day - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    In any case, fair's fair. There's really no reason not to have a holiday celebrating native peoples if there's a public demand for one.

    I just don't see any reason why it should replace a European holiday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Or we could just save up on holidays and replace the ones where we celebrate psychopathic european men.

    Europeans didn't discover America. There were people already living on it. As a matter of fact, Europeans can't discover a land where people are already living. Did they discover Australia? Asia? No. They didn't. The people who lived there and had homes there did. So what do we have left? Columbus Day as a holiday where white people celebrate the day a psychopathic European decided to kill off Native Americans and divide their lands as the Europeans saw fit.

    So do I. We shouldn't be in the business of celebrating the time murderous Europeans accidentally found out that there were other continents and then decided they belonged to Europe.
    Oh, boohoo.

    You're talking about something that almost literally took place five hundred years ago. Get over it.

    History has winners, and history has losers. It always has. Generally speaking, there are very few completely despicable monsters or totally innocent victims among either group.

    Both exist in different shades of gray.

    In any case, the simple fact of the matter is that we Europeans are here now, and we have just as much right to celebrate our history and heritage as anyone else. If you don't like it, tough.

    I'd suggest that you address the irrational bigotry inherent to your own worldview which apparently allows you to blame entire groups of people living today for crimes committed before they were even a twinkle in their great, great, great, great, great (and etca's) grandfathers' eyes before looking to complain about the legacy supposedly perpetuated by a harmless holiday.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 10-08-14 at 12:56 AM.

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoplesí Day

    When I was in High School, I wrote a paper (it was pretty long) in which stated that we are natives - it is our home.

    Ethicity dosen't grant ownership...

    I do via reasearch realize that the Natives face hard times but that is only due to their religous beliefs.... They could have it so much better, but at the same time I can understand why they choose to live the way they do and IMO most don't hate us for their decisions - it's their way of life and they want to keep it that way... IMO, it is usually the "self richious" that feel the need to exploit the natives and create a political war vs guys like me........The political pundets cause all the problems for their own poltical raesons...

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoplesí Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    Didn't Columbus say something along the lines of "Wow these people give me everything I want, they can be so easily enslaved!"

    Yeah we should celebrate him alright
    He also said stuff like
    "boy, I need to take a dump"
    and
    "it's a bit nippy outside today".
    These are all taken from the I pulled these quotes outta my ass school, the same place you took yours.

    What he actually said was this:
    These people are very unskilled in arms... with 50 men they could all be subjected and made to do all that one wished.
    Which is an accurate thing to say. The natives of both the carribean and the americas were technologically backwards, almost stone-age like.

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoplesí Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    No ...I will not.
    I don't feel guilty.
    Columbus was scum and I have been glad to say so every October.
    Good on you.
    Here's +5 good guy points.


    Until the recent history, all wars were accompanied by massive abuses and penalties done upon the conquered population by the conqueror. It is in fact only western civilization which today, and for the recent past, that doesn't indulge in this behavior and in fact, does quite the opposite, does a lot to relieve the populations that are occupied of many problems and worries. It is a testament to why the western world is not just different, but better and why our culture is not just different, but better.
    But until this very recent past, all other wars fought by all people on all places in the world, have resulted in the abuse and suffering of whatever actions the conquerors wanted to inflict. This is the reality.

    And because that was the reality of those times, I know it sucks, but that is the reality. The natives of the americas were in the stone age. They were less developed than 2000BC mesopotamians. Hell, than 13k BC mesopotamia. That was the level that they were at from a technological standpoint.
    And because they were at that level, they were doing the same thing to one another, killing each other for food, raping each other to wipe out entire tribes, they weren't "noble" in any way. They were just dogs in the playground, biting at each other and lo and behold, from accross the sea, a much bigger came and took the playground. You may not think it's fair, but it doesn't matter because history isn't measured in what is fair or not. It's there to educate yourself and realize a few important lessons, like, don't a dumbass and don't fall behind technologically.

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    Re: Seattle Changes Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoplesí Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Are you just making it up as you go now and moving on to the next ridiculous red herring? Leif Erikson Day doesn't celebrate the beginning of any colonization period. Unlike Columbus day. That the people who created it were as ignorant in their opinion of what a discovery was as you are is not only fascinating it's outright funny.

    Actually, it doesn't notice the wording:

    In any case, fair's fair. There's really no reason not to have a holiday celebrating native peoples if there's a public demand for one.

    I just don't see any reason why it should replace a European holiday.
    Of course you don't see a reason to stop celebrating the arrival of a murderous group of Europeans who established white supremacy on the continent for 500 years.

    Oh, boohoo.

    You're talking about something that almost literally took place five hundred years ago. Get over it.

    History has winners, and history has losers. It always has. Generally speaking, there are very few completely despicable monsters or totally innocent victims among either group.

    Both exist in different shades of gray.

    In any case, the simple fact of the matter is that we Europeans are here now, and we have just as much right to celebrate our history and heritage as anyone else. If you don't like it, tough.

    I'd suggest that you address the irrational bigotry inherent to your own worldview which apparently allows you to blame entire groups of people living today for crimes committed before they were even a twinkle in their great, great, great, great, great (and etca's) grandfathers' eyes before looking to complain about the legacy supposedly perpetuated by a harmless holiday.
    In different colors all the usual rebuttals that are useless.

    First up! Get over it:Get over what? The fact that you're advocating celebrating the arrival of murderous colonizers? That's the only thing in question. Not whether something happened or not. It's been acknowledged that it happened. People are over it, what you haven't convinced anyone in this thread to do is celebrate the fact that it did.

    Second Rebuttal: History has winner and losers. No kidding. I bet you learned that wherever you were taught that "getting over it" is a convincing argument for celebrating the arrival of psychopathic colonizers. As far as I'm concerned, the Europeans arrived and decided to take over land which didn't belong to them. That's not exactly worth celebrating.

    Third bit of nonsense: It's part of our history! You can't tell us it's wrong to celebrate it. That's nice, what's next? Celebrating the My Lai massacre? What about allowing Muslims to celebrate 9/11? What shall Americans Muslims tell us 100 years from now if they decided to celebrate 9/11? The Armenian massacre? Oh alright, those were just short historical periods. Hm, alright how about we celebrate the expulsion of the Jews from Europe? That took a few 100 years. Again, stop me when you find an argument for why any period of a colonizing process should be celebrated.

    Forth Rebuttal: You're the racist one! Uh, no. I'm just not in favor of celebrating psychopaths and killers regardless of their race.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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