Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 47

Thread: The 2014 Nobel Prize in Physics - Press Release

  1. #31
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:03 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,301

    Re: The 2014 Nobel Prize in Physics - Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    I still think the Science prizes have value, What happens is the time between the work and
    the award is so long that people forget how great the contribution was.
    I saw Dr. Norman Ramsey speak, after he received his Nobel prize, for
    work done almost 40 years earlier.
    Maybe you have a point.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  2. #32
    Assassin
    Verax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:31 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    9,511

    Re: The 2014 Nobel Prize in Physics - Press Release

    Is there anything right-wingers don't have a problem with?

  3. #33
    Sage
    Fenton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:08 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,277

    Re: The 2014 Nobel Prize in Physics - Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Is there anything right-wingers don't have a problem with?
    Its old news that the Nobel Committee has been corrupted by left wing ideologues.

  4. #34
    Assassin
    Verax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:31 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    9,511

    Re: The 2014 Nobel Prize in Physics - Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Its old news that the Nobel Committee has been corrupted by left wing ideologues.
    Because everything not right-wing, is left-wing, right?

  5. #35
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    11,691

    Re: The 2014 Nobel Prize in Physics - Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    There were other people working on the same technology Edison was, including the Light bulb.

    Edison just beat them to the punch.
    That's the way things work. Almost always, there are multiple efforts being made toward some pursuit and those who reach an outcome first receive most or all of the credit.

    Tesla was a far more brilliant and innovative inventor. He also had a eidetic memory.
    I am not criticizing Tesla in any way and I'm not choosing one over the other. We agree that Tesla was brilliant. FWIW, neither man won the Nobel Prize.

    DC power transmission ( what Edison was pushing for ) over long distances is not practical or even feasible.

    In a DC Circuit the electron have to make a complete and unidirectional path, from the source, through the load and then to ground.

    If we had stuck with Edison's idea of DC power distribution we would have had to run massive conductors to Sub-stations that were no more than a few miles apart.
    Again, we don't disagree. Furthermore, one can't discount the possibility that Edison would ultimately have seen the limitations of DC and worked toward an alternative.

  6. #36
    Guru

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:44 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,671

    Re: The 2014 Nobel Prize in Physics - Press Release

    Why would you have an issue with something because it is more efficient? Batteries aren't new tech; they've been around for thousands of years. But an advancement that more than doubled the capacity of batteries and fathered a generation of advancements would certainly be worth a Nobel Prize.

    Also, if it was such a small achievement, why wasn't anyone else able to grow gallium nitride crystals? Why didn't anyone else notice that excess hydrogen was preventing the creation of the P layer? (Diodes have an N and a P layer). Why didn't anyone else build a blue laser?

    It's hard to have RGB without the B. Forget color smartphones without this work. And CD's use a red laser (780nm). Blue rays use a blue laser(405nm). We wouldn't have high capacity optical storage now without this work.

  7. #37
    Guru

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:44 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,671

    Re: The 2014 Nobel Prize in Physics - Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    There were other people working on the same technology Edison was, including the Light bulb.

    Edison just beat them to the punch.

    Tesla was a far more brilliant and innovative inventor. He also had a eidetic memory.

    DC power transmission ( what Edison was pushing for ) over long distances is not practical or even feasible.

    In a DC Circuit the electron have to make a complete and unidirectional path, from the source, through the load and then to ground.

    If we had stuck with Edison's idea of DC power distribution we would have had to run massive conductors to Sub-stations that were no more than a few miles apart.

    EVERY motor would have had to be commutated. That means regular disassembly of the Commutator section for brush replacements.


    Tesla's discovered the properties of Induction. Using the alternating collapsing Electro magnetic field of a primary Coil to transfer ( induce ) AC current into a secondary Coil.


    Also his invention of the induction Motor was absolutely revolutionary.

    Thanks to his inventions large amounts of power could be transferred over thousands of miles through Conductors that were no more than a inch in diameter.

    High voltage could then be transferred into Substations, through Large transformers and then out to homes and businesses where it could be stepped down again as a useful source of energy.

    The Car manufacturer Telsa used his name to build a over engineered Golf Cart thats powered by DC.

    They should have named the Tesla the Eddison.
    I want to like this, everything is true except the Edison bits. Edison was brilliant, but wasn't much of an inventor. Instead, he was one of the most brilliant IP pirates and self promoters of all times.

    Tesla was beyond brilliant. Really he's a staggering figure. He invented virtually everything electrically up until semiconductors. He invented AC current, transformers, distribution, the florescent light bulb, induction motors, wireless power transfer, the transistor, radio transmission, remote control, XRays, and made large contributions to robotics. If you've studied EE, that's pretty much the lions share of everything.

    Contrast that with Edison. The lightbulb was invented by Heinrich Goebel in 1854. He tried to sell it to Edison, but Edison turned him down because he didn't see any practical use. Goebel died, and Edision bought the patent of his widow for pennies on the dollar. And Menlo Park wasn't just a shack where Edison experimented, but a full fledged research lab with hundreds of employees. Whenever anyone invented something, Edison would patent it under his own name.

    There is one field where Edison did novel work: capital punishment. Edison wanted DC (which is impractical for transmission), Tesla-Westinghouse supported AC. Edison had his lab electrocute animals to show how dangerous the "killing" current was. Here's Edison electrocuting Topsy the elephant at a worlds fair. When the government came to Edison and asked for a humane method of carrying out the death penalty, Edison suggested AC current. He didn't suggest it because it was a good solution, but because he thought "Westinghousing" criminals was a good PR move.


    Edit: also Tesla uses 3 phase AC induction motors on their cars.
    http://www.teslamotors.com/roadster/technology/motor
    Last edited by Mithros; 10-07-14 at 02:22 PM.

  8. #38
    Sage
    Fenton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:08 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,277

    Re: The 2014 Nobel Prize in Physics - Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    I want to like this, everything is true except the Edison bits. Edison was brilliant, but wasn't much of an inventor. Instead, he was one of the most brilliant IP pirates and self promoters of all times.

    Tesla was beyond brilliant. Really he's a staggering figure. He invented virtually everything electrically up until semiconductors. He invented AC current, transformers, distribution, the florescent light bulb, induction motors, wireless power transfer, the transistor, radio transmission, remote control, XRays, and made large contributions to robotics. If you've studied EE, that's pretty much the lions share of everything.

    Contrast that with Edison. The lightbulb was invented by Heinrich Goebel in 1854. He tried to sell it to Edison, but Edison turned him down because he didn't see any practical use. Goebel died, and Edision bought the patent of his widow for pennies on the dollar. And Menlo Park wasn't just a shack where Edison experimented, but a full fledged research lab with hundreds of employees. Whenever anyone invented something, Edison would patent it under his own name.

    There is one field where Edison did novel work: capital punishment. Edison wanted DC (which is impractical for transmission), Tesla-Westinghouse supported AC. Edison had his lab electrocute animals to show how dangerous the "killing" current was. Here's Edison electrocuting Topsy the elephant at a worlds fair. When the government came to Edison and asked for a humane method of carrying out the death penalty, Edison suggested AC current. He didn't suggest it because it was a good solution, but because he thought "Westinghousing" criminals was a good PR move.


    Edit: also Tesla uses 3 phase AC induction motors on their cars.
    http://www.teslamotors.com/roadster/technology/motor


    Tesla uses a Inverter rated 3 phase " AC " motor thats Fed 3 phase frequency modulated DC Square Wave.

    Its not true AC that powers that motor. There is no AC Generator in that car

    Its DC fed from a Battery pack, into a large inverter which outputs pulse width modulated square wave with a feed back circuit ( most likely a Potentiometer on the Gas pedal ) that regulates the distance of the individual square waves which controls the RPM of that motor.

    If you plug a Oscilloscope into your average socket in a home you'll see ( if you set it up correctly ) one phase of a true AC sinusoidal waveform peaking from positive 118 v to negative 118 v , 60 times a second.

    For 3 phase AC you'll see three phases of Sinusoidal waveforms superimposed over each other at 120 degrees out of phase. ( minus powerfactor )

    3 phase 230 is two legs of 120 v and one " hot leg " of 230.

    3 phase 480 v is 3 legs of 277v

    Hook up a Oscilloscope to the output of a Tesla and you'll see a manufactured " sinusoidal " square wave.

    Positive DC to Negative DC. Because of the motors inherent inductive qualities if you switch the O-scope over to read amperage instead of voltage it will look like a typical sinusoidal waveform.

    The motor is fooled by its own inductive properties.

    Motors have to be rated to run off a Inverter or they dont last long.

  9. #39
    Guru

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:44 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,671

    Re: The 2014 Nobel Prize in Physics - Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Tesla uses a Inverter rated 3 phase " AC " motor thats Fed 3 phase frequency modulated DC Square Wave.

    Its not true AC that powers that motor. There is no AC Generator in that car

    Its DC fed from a Battery pack, into a large inverter which outputs pulse width modulated square wave with a feed back circuit ( most likely a Potentiometer on the Gas pedal ) that regulates the distance of the individual square waves which controls the RPM of that motor.

    If you plug a Oscilloscope into your average socket in a home you'll see ( if you set it up correctly ) one phase of a true AC sinusoidal waveform peaking from positive 118 v to negative 118 v , 60 times a second.

    For 3 phase AC you'll see three phases of Sinusoidal waveforms superimposed over each other at 120 degrees out of phase. ( minus powerfactor )

    3 phase 230 is two legs of 120 v and one " hot leg " of 230.

    3 phase 480 v is 3 legs of 277v

    Hook up a Oscilloscope to the output of a Tesla and you'll see a manufactured " sinusoidal " square wave.

    Positive DC to Negative DC. Because of the motors inherent inductive qualities if you switch the O-scope over to read amperage instead of voltage it will look like a typical sinusoidal waveform.

    The motor is fooled by its own inductive properties.

    Motors have to be rated to run off a Inverter or they dont last long.
    Yep, but it's still an AC motor. The inverter is the AC generator, it's just powered by a DC source instead of an induction motor spun by a gasoline engine.

    (Also you're right. Inverters tend to be "messier". Building waveforms by switching introduces an infinite number of odd harmonics. Low pass filtering will dampen them, especially the higher ones. However, unless you're switching at many many times the output frequency, you're still going to have residual noise on the signal. This is sort of like shaking the motor in an electrical sense and essentially operates the motor at higher instantaneous loads and currents than you'd see with clean power)

  10. #40
    Sage
    Fenton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:08 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,277

    Re: The 2014 Nobel Prize in Physics - Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Yep, but it's still an AC motor. The inverter is the AC generator, it's just powered by a DC source instead of an induction motor spun by a gasoline engine.

    (Also you're right. Inverters tend to be "messier". Building waveforms by switching introduces an infinite number of odd harmonics. Low pass filtering will dampen them, especially the higher ones. However, unless you're switching at many many times the output frequency, you're still going to have residual noise on the signal. This is sort of like shaking the motor in an electrical sense and essentially operates the motor at higher instantaneous loads and currents than you'd see with clean power)

    Harmonics from ( older ) VFDs/ inverters are only an issue if that VFD is installed in the field, like a industrial application where those harmonics can back feed and degrade your overall power factor.

    Low power factors can cause component, motor and transformers to over heat and your utility bill to go up.

    Newer VFDs-inverter have carrier frequency inductors built into them that filter out most of the Harmonics.

    Had Tesla invented the inverter, OK then name the car after him.

    But running DC from a bank of Capacittors, through a switching circuit and firing it off via HV IGBTs as a DC Square Wave isn't a AC Generator.

    Its a BIG Signal Generator. A Signal Generator ( Ive built a couple of them when I used to Hobby build ) is a electronic component.

    Not a Telsa invention and not even remotely a AC Generator.

    Try to run that square wave through a isolation transformer like a actual AC sinusoidal waveform for the purpose of Induction and your'e going to release " the magic smoke."

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •