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Thread: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Where's the amendment? When is it coming?
    Why is there a need for an amendment?

    Because Amendment efforts, for the US Constitution, to ban Civil Marriage based on gender have failed - repeatedly. So I guess the position is that citizens are entitled to equal treatement and due process from the States. So to get same-sex Civil Marriage a Federal Constitutional Amendment is required to grant a right from the government, instead of a document limiting the "powers" of government it is to become a laundry list of "rights" held by the people.

    Previous Amendment efforts to ban SSCM failed in:

    2002 - referred to die in committee

    2003 - referred to various committees, failed to advance

    2004 - failed a cloture vote in the Senate and failed on the House floor vote

    2005/2006 - failed a cluture vote in the Senate and failed on the House floor vote

    2008 - Introduced, referred to committee, no action

    2013 - Introduced, referred to committee



    >>>>

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Because Amendment efforts, for the US Constitution, to ban Civil Marriage based on gender have failed - repeatedly. So I guess the position is that citizens are entitled to equal treatement and due process from the States. So to get same-sex Civil Marriage a Federal Constitutional Amendment is required to grant a right from the government, instead of a document limiting the "powers" of government it is to become a laundry list of "rights" held by the people.

    Previous Amendment efforts to ban SSCM failed in:
    2002 - referred to die in committee

    2003 - referred to various committees, failed to advance

    2004 - failed a cloture vote in the Senate and failed on the House floor vote

    2005/2006 - failed a cluture vote in the Senate and failed on the House floor vote

    2008 - Introduced, referred to committee, no action

    2013 - Introduced, referred to committee



    >>>>
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Why is there a need for an amendment?
    In my mind, there is no need, because I believe the Federal government should not play any role in this, it is up to the States. I think those that want to redefine marriage need an amendment because there is nothing in the Constitution granting Federal authority in this. The 14th amendment argument is B.S., but it is still used by activist judges to try and justify their crappy decisions.
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    1.)In my mind, there is no need, because I believe the Federal government should not play any role in this, it is up to the States.
    2.) I think those that want to redefine marriage need an amendment because there is nothing in the Constitution granting Federal authority in this.
    3.) The 14th amendment argument is B.S., but it is still used by activist judges to try and justify their crappy decisions.
    1.) this is backwards from how our government works. Individual rights are not a states rights issue. The states overreached and the fed stepped in and corrected them protect equal rights, that's exactly how its supposed to be.
    2.) its not being redefined, its still a type of civil contract
    3.) BS? I havent double checked this but supposedly you are talking about 45 judges lol all 45 are just "activists"? sorry the strawman has no support.

    you are claiming that rights, the law, the constitution and 45 judges and thier court cases are all wrong?
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    In my mind, there is no need, because I believe the Federal government should not play any role in this, it is up to the States. I think those that want to redefine marriage need an amendment because there is nothing in the Constitution granting Federal authority in this. The 14th amendment argument is B.S., but it is still used by activist judges to try and justify their crappy decisions.
    And so the problem is that there is only a "redefinition" in your own mind. It isn't really happening because marriage has never really been defined legally by who can enter into it, but rather by what it does, which is make a legal kinship between two people in the form of spouse. All removing the restriction of sex/gender does is make that kinship available to more combinations of people.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And so the problem is that there is only a "redefinition" in your own mind. It isn't really happening because marriage has never really been defined legally by who can enter into it, but rather by what it does, which is make a legal kinship between two people in the form of spouse. All removing the restriction of sex/gender does is make that kinship available to more combinations of people.
    As far as I can remember in this country, marriage has been between a man and a woman only. I don't know of any time in our history that it's been anything else. That's why it's a redefinition. But the issue that bothers me, whichever way it goes, is that the Federal government has no authority to get involved. Those judges should be turning the cases away because it is up to the States. The Constitution does not give the power to them, so it automatically resides with the States and the people.
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    As far as I can remember in this country, marriage has been between a man and a woman only. I don't know of any time in our history that it's been anything else. That's why it's a redefinition. But the issue that bothers me, whichever way it goes, is that the Federal government has no authority to get involved. Those judges should be turning the cases away because it is up to the States. The Constitution does not give the power to them, so it automatically resides with the States and the people.
    Doesn't matter if it never happened before, it doesn't make it a "redefinition". It has always been about establishing a legal kinship of spouses. In order for it to be a "redefinition", you would have to be doing something other than establishing the kinship of spouses between two people.

    The federal government has every authority to get involved. It is called the "US Constitution". The 14th Amendment gives them that power. The Civil War is over, the South lost, that means state governments are limited in what laws they can enact by the US Constitution and the people.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The federal government has every authority to get involved. It is called the "US Constitution". The 14th Amendment gives them that power. The Civil War is over, the South lost, that means state governments are limited in what laws they can enact by the US Constitution and the people.
    You say they have "every authority"? How so? We know the complete history of the 13th, 14th, and 14th amendments. It's no mystery what they are for. And gay marriage isn't part of it.

    The South lost the Civil War, which decided slavery and whether or not States can just leave the Union whenever they want. State governments are not more limited in the laws they can enact than they were before the Civil War. If that's what you mean? I'm not sure of what it is you are saying.
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    You say they have "every authority"? How so? We know the complete history of the 13th, 14th, and 14th amendments. It's no mystery what they are for. And gay marriage isn't part of it.

    The South lost the Civil War, which decided slavery and whether or not States can just leave the Union whenever they want. State governments are not more limited in the laws they can enact than they were before the Civil War. If that's what you mean? I'm not sure of what it is you are saying.
    Doesn't matter what you "think" you know. I know that the people including the Courts and government have upheld that the 14th applies to much more than just race, as some like to claim. And yes, same sex marriage is covered by it.

    Yes, state governments are more limited, whether they like it or not. The Civil War was about more than slavery afterall. It was based on states' rights being supreme, over the federal government and individuals. They lost that fight. Individual rights trump state rights up to the point where the state can show a law/restriction furthers a legitimate state interest.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    If you think that being against another person demanding handouts from the rest of us is suppressing their freedom, well that's just a complete disconnect from reality.
    You have a serious lack of understanding of what freedom and Constitution mean.
    Handouts? Your marriage is a handout from me, is it?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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