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Thread: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

  1. #741
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Now you have a chicken vs egg question.
    Not really. You can generally judge how well your friends and family will take you telling them you are gay or some other news like it. I know how this feels in a way because I knew my parents wouldn't have any issue with me dating someone of a different race, but that my grandparents would not like it at all, possibly even disown me for it, so I didn't share it with them when I started dating someone in high school who was African American. Had we gotten more serious than a high school relationship or had my grandparents lived closer to us, I would have told them, no matter the consequences. I also wouldn't have lied to them had they asked (as they did my father when he told them he was getting married to my mother).

    So then people come out to their family and friends, many of which will accept them (despite some who won't/don't). Then, even if they are against same sex couples getting married prior to their loved one coming out, they will likely grow to support seeing their loved one happy, particularly if they see them in a loving, committed relationship. Then those loved ones will start to share their experiences and support for their loved ones with people they know and who likely respect their feelings, who then start to see where others are coming from.

    It is much more difficult to see the other side on this issue because in reality the lives of those who are against same sex couples getting married are not affected by same sex couples getting married, not in a measurable way. It is nothing more than their beliefs being offended, which is something that they do not have a right not to have happen.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #742
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Why do you consistently make strawman arguments? When did I ever say the government is not involved in legally recognized kinship in the United States? Quote where you believe I claimed such.
    If the government is still involved, then what would be the point? They would still decide which ones they recognized.

    And I still don't see where you think that it wouldn't cost money to set these up, even if it is just a single document. They would still have to have it notarized, which likely means a fee. Plus, I don't see the government not requiring a fee to at least file the paperwork either.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #743
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Same sex marriage is about access to an already existing institution, marriage, despite what you keep trying to claim. Marriage already exists. Same sex couples are just asking to enter into it legally, just as mixed race couples did with Loving. It is not a new institution at all.
    Since the previous definition of marriage was heterosexual, I don't agree.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Since the previous definition of marriage was heterosexual, I don't agree.
    There is no set definition of marriage except that it establishes a legal relationship of kins known as spouses. Restrictions on marriage do not describe what marriage is, not when those restrictions do not apply universally. I can claim to be married without being legally married so long as I don't do it on legal documentation. Marriage is a concept, not a concrete thing.

    It can easily be said that the definition of marriage prior to Loving was two people of the same race so those mixed race couples were trying to create a new institution, interracial marriage.

    It doesn't matter if you don't personally agree. You cannot prove differently. Legally, it is the same institution, which is proven by the fact that they use the exact same marriage license that opposite sex couples do, are covered under the exact same laws.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #745
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    There is no set definition of marriage except that it establishes a legal relationship of kins known as spouses. Restrictions on marriage do not describe what marriage is, not when those restrictions do not apply universally. I can claim to be married without being legally married so long as I don't do it on legal documentation. Marriage is a concept, not a concrete thing.

    It can easily be said that the definition of marriage prior to Loving was two people of the same race so those mixed race couples were trying to create a new institution, interracial marriage.

    It doesn't matter if you don't personally agree. You cannot prove differently. Legally, it is the same institution, which is proven by the fact that they use the exact same marriage license that opposite sex couples do, are covered under the exact same laws.
    Even before Loving marriage between races was legal in most of the US.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  6. #746
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Gee, what a well reasoned argument you make. Almost like Swiss Cheese. Except Swiss Cheese has at least some substance.
    Weird how my argument has won over 40 times and yours has only won like twice.

  7. #747
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Oh, this is not solely based on her looks, though she is an ugly beast. This woman is trying to bring down my country. She is my enemy. An enemy of the Constitution. I draw no quarter for such a beast. She is human debris, that which seeks to destroy us. A hound from hell. She is a pitiful, disgusting human being. And I use that term loosely.
    Ok, seriously, I hate to be that Godwin guy, but holy ****ing **** dude. Get yourself some help. This sort of language is straight out of every precursor to genocide in history.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Even before Loving marriage between races was legal in most of the US.
    We're over 50% for same-sex marriage in terms of population, and SCOTUS is still punting. The similarities continue!
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Of course the recognition comes from the government. I never argued otherwise, and I even explicitly stated that in my post. Reread what I wrote:

    Why does the documentation have to come from the government? Government recognizes and enforces private contracts as well. Legal kinship could easily be recognized through private contracts. Nothing needs to be issued from the government.

    My point, which was very clear, is that government recognizes documentation that it does not itself create or issue. Government very easily can recognize legal kinship through a private contract. It does all the time in something called a will.
    So, put your money where your libertarian mouth is. All the things you mention can be done with a private contract. So make one. Start your own marriage contract firm. Offer marriage contracts that do everything the government one does for less money and less hassle. Run them out of business with a superior product. Surely the market will gravitate towards your much better option.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  10. #750
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Even before Loving marriage between races was legal in most of the US.
    Loving v Virginia only affirmed to all states that interracial marriage was a right. Same as SSM. Those that defined marriage made a mistake. The courts are simply correcting the mistake made by others that had no right to define marriage.


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