Page 73 of 88 FirstFirst ... 2363717273747583 ... LastLast
Results 721 to 730 of 880

Thread: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

  1. #721
    Sage
    Anthony60's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Northern New Jersey
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:35 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    7,578

    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Marriage is a law last I checked. Gay and lesbian Americans are citizens. So yeah it does.
    Gee, what a well reasoned argument you make. Almost like Swiss Cheese. Except Swiss Cheese has at least some substance.
    "We have met the enemy and they are ours..." -- Oliver Hazard Perry
    "I don't want a piece of you... I want the whole thing!" -- Bob Barker

  2. #722
    Guru
    WorldWatcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Last Seen
    12-14-17 @ 07:50 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,041

    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    A will very much can establish a next of kin relationship. Next of kin relationships also matter after death (for example, the administrator of the estate). Inheritance automatically goes to next of kind, unless the will states otherwise.
    No it doesn't. You are incorrect. A Will establishes beneficiaries, not next of kin. A couple of examples:

    1. A spouse is the default next of kin in all states. If the spouse passes that relationship means that under tax code that person inherits the estate with no taxes. On the other hand a beneficiary that is not the spouse may receive the proceeds of the estate but will be subject to Estate Taxes if the value of the estate exceeds certain dollar amounts. The "Will" cannot change that.

    2. A single person purchases a house. A married couple purchases a house. After occupying the house for X years the house is sold. The single person can claim a $250,000 exemption on any profit on the sale of the home. The married couple can claim $500,000 (since there are two people) on any profit on the sale of the home. However for the married couple, if one spouse dies and within two years from the date of death the other spouse sells the home, (s)he can still claim the $500,000 exemption on profit from the sale even though (s)he is legally single. The "Will" cannot change that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    For a living next of kin relationship (such as in the event of entering a vegetative state) that would be even easier. Just say "I hereby appoint so-and-so as my next of kin" and have both parties sign. Simple as that. That would encompass any law or policy that requires a next of kin. In the United Kingdom, the process is similar to that.

    1. I don't think you understand what being in a vegetative state means. If there is an accident resulting in a person being in a vegatitive state they are not going to have the capacity to just say "I hereby appoint so-and-so as my next of kin".

    2. Now I highly recommend that married couples backup state law with a Medical Power of Attorney/Living Will (as my wife and I have done) so there are no disputes as to who makes the decision in the event of an accident. Each state is going to establish in their Statutes an order of presidency for next of kin in the absence of such for declarations for a variety of purposes such as beneficiary, medical decision making, funeral arrangements, estate disposition, etc. Typically the order follows along the lines of Spouse, Parent, Sibling, Grandparent, Cousin, etc.

    3. This isn't the United Kingdom, this is the United States where the laws can vary significantly from State to State.


    >>>>

  3. #723
    Sage
    Anthony60's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Northern New Jersey
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:35 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    7,578

    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Loving was about access to marriage by certain types of couples, the same as same sex marriage cases are.
    After the "Loving" case, was there some consensus that now gay marriage was also unquestioned? I missed it. And before "Loving" marriage was only between a man and a woman. After "Loving", it was between... a man... and... a woman. Oh, no change. So that applies to gays how again?

    Jeez, what happened? I'll tell you what happened. "Loving" did not change marriage at all. It just enforced the Constitution and amendments that forbid racial discrimination. You know what it said about gays? Nothing.

    So, why don't we just make this gay marriage thing ironclad? Why isn't there even the slightest push for a Constitutional amendment? I would support it 100% if that was done. So, why not? Why beat around the bush with all these court cases and votes? I'd really like to hear an answer on that one.
    "We have met the enemy and they are ours..." -- Oliver Hazard Perry
    "I don't want a piece of you... I want the whole thing!" -- Bob Barker

  4. #724
    Guru
    Lakryte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    06-02-17 @ 01:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,982

    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    No it doesn't. You are incorrect. A Will establishes beneficiaries, not next of kin. A couple of examples:
    1. A spouse is the default next of kin in all states. If the spouse passes that relationship means that under tax code that person inherits the estate with no taxes. On the other hand a beneficiary that is not the spouse may receive the proceeds of the estate but will be subject to Estate Taxes if the value of the estate exceeds certain dollar amounts. The "Will" cannot change that.

    2. A single person purchases a house. A married couple purchases a house. After occupying the house for X years the house is sold. The single person can claim a $250,000 exemption on any profit on the sale of the home. The married couple can claim $500,000 (since there are two people) on any profit on the sale of the home. However for the married couple, if one spouse dies and within two years from the date of death the other spouse sells the home, (s)he can still claim the $500,000 exemption on profit from the sale even though (s)he is legally single. The "Will" cannot change that.
    You are incorrect. A will can establish next of kin, insofar as next of kin is relevant to post-death decisions and legalities. A will does not merely say who gets what. Your two points are totally irrelevant to the point I am making, suggesting you do not understand it.



    1. I don't think you understand what being in a vegetative state means. If there is an accident resulting in a person being in a vegatitive state they are not going to have the capacity to just say "I hereby appoint so-and-so as my next of kin".[/quote]
    No sh*t you can't do that in a vegetative state. That's why you establish the next of kin agreement before something like that happens. The above argument is as idiotic as saying "you can't write a will if you are dead, therefore wills are useless."

    2. Now I highly recommend that married couples backup state law with a Medical Power of Attorney/Living Will (as my wife and I have done) so there are no disputes as to who makes the decision in the event of an accident. Each state is going to establish in their Statutes an order of presidency for next of kin in the absence of such for declarations for a variety of purposes such as beneficiary, medical decision making, funeral arrangements, estate disposition, etc. Typically the order follows along the lines of Spouse, Parent, Sibling, Grandparent, Cousin, etc.
    Again, you state the obvious, which in no way refutes what I wrote.

    3. This isn't the United Kingdom, this is the United States where the laws can vary significantly from State to State.
    When talking about the best policy, saying "well, it varies by state" is not a refutation of the policy. Remember what my argument is: a marriage license is not required to establish a next of kin relationship, nor is it the best way of doing so. A simple contract can do just that. Just say "I hereby appoint so-and-so as my next of kin" and have both parties sign. Done.

    I brought up the UK as an example of a country that has a policy with aspects I find superior to the U.S. Perhaps you think we should ignore policies that work in other countries because 'Murka, but I do not find such arrogance rational.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  5. #725
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    29,054

    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Not buying it.
    Who cares if you "buy" it or not. It is part of history. Just because you don't want to believe people doesn't mean it didn't happen. Is it possible that it didn't? Sure. But there are reports of same sex marriage so it is no less believable than many other things that we have reports of happening in the past, including stand in marriages (someone else taking one of the spouses' places for the wedding/marriage for whatever reason, agreeing in their place and taking on their responsibilities as a spouse for as long as needed) or a woman with multiple husbands (only reported in maybe one culture in history).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #726
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    29,054

    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I think it was more that gays came out.
    That was only part of it. They stopped fearing coming out because they were becoming more and more accepted.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #727
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    29,054

    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Fine, but beside the point. Realization that it's not a choice, but like race is something you're born with, made it politically potent and enabled the civil rights analogy.
    Not really. That acceptance that it isn't a choice seems to come after support from individuals is gained for many people that I've seen. It doesn't seem to really be all that big of a factor for many people, just an extra.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #728
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    29,054

    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Too simplistic.
    It really is that simple. Marriage is the legal method of recognizing spousal relationships. There is nothing about being a spouse that requires two people of the opposite sex, just as there is nothing about being a spouse (legally) that requires two people of the same race. It honestly is legally that simple.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #729
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    29,054

    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    It is not cheaper, nor is it more efficient, for it to come from that government. That is the false assumption you are basing your entire opinion on.

    You don't have to pay a lawyer thousands of dollars in fees to create a government recognized contract that establishes next of kin. In some counties here in CA a marriage license costs $100, so your $30 figure isn't even accurate for everyone either. As to your last point, if you don't want your friend to be next of kin, don't assign him as such in your will.

    In the UK, you can establish anyone you want to be next of kin. If you don't trust your family, you are not forced to be at their whims and can have a close friend be your next of kin. Here in the U.S. the fact you cannot do that only further proves the point that government is inept. Government restrictions on private contracts making them less efficient is a problem with government, not private contracts.
    It absolutely is cheaper and more efficient to have a single document, the marriage license, to deal with all the issues that come up with spouses.

    It cost me 7 years ago $30. In order to set up a will, a power of attorney, and other legal documentation, it could cost at least $300 just for one of these. Multiple of these is upwards of $1000+. And, none of those things mentioned can be used to give me recognition within the military, which is where many of the benefits of my marriage that I've seen so far have come from. Heck, my marriage license has saved me from having to go to court for a name change on my SS (just bring the marriage certificate/license).

    We do not live in the UK. This is the US. But they still do have legal spouses that are set up much like ours, giving them automatic access to certain rights and privileges.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #730
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    29,054

    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    That's not true everywhere, which was my point. I never denied that somewhere it costs $30, so your point is moot.

    A will very much can establish a next of kin relationship. Next of kin relationships also matter after death (for example, the administrator of the estate). Inheritance automatically goes to next of kind, unless the will states otherwise.

    For a living next of kin relationship (such as in the event of entering a vegetative state) that would be even easier. Just say "I hereby appoint so-and-so as my next of kin" and have both parties sign. Simple as that. That would encompass any law or policy that requires a next of kin. In the United Kingdom, the process is similar to that.
    And even at $100, that is less than it cost to make a will through a lawyer, let alone much of the other paperwork that is also covered.

    And there are no legal papers via a lawyer that establish a legally recognized kinship here in the US without also having the government involved.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

Page 73 of 88 FirstFirst ... 2363717273747583 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •