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Thread: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

  1. #701
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Not impossible. Harder, lengthier, more expensive, and not as bulletproof in court. Nobody said impossible. Why did you bring up impossible?

    edit: But hey, you want something impossible? Sure. Spousal privilege in a criminal trial.
    I suggest you go back and read the posts I was responding to.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  2. #702
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    National defense doesn't "need" to be done by the government either. But government is better at it than you are.
    So government is better at everything, is that your argument? That government may be better at X does not make it better at Y. Your argument is completely fallacious. It was government that has prohibited gay men and women from obtaining its created marriage license. Let's not forget that.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  3. #703
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    I'm asking what other documents establish a legal next of kin relationship with the same scope currently existing for a $35.00 marriage license that is recognized and enforceable in all 50 states?
    A simple contract establishing next of kin would suffice. Typically that is a very small part of a larger will.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  4. #704
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    All legal kinship recognition comes from the government because the government handles legal matters, which is where such recognition actually occurs. No legal kinship is done through anything but the government.
    Of course the recognition comes from the government. I never argued otherwise, and I even explicitly stated that in my post. Reread what I wrote:

    Why does the documentation have to come from the government? Government recognizes and enforces private contracts as well. Legal kinship could easily be recognized through private contracts. Nothing needs to be issued from the government.

    My point, which was very clear, is that government recognizes documentation that it does not itself create or issue. Government very easily can recognize legal kinship through a private contract. It does all the time in something called a will.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Legal kinship requires some sort of government recognized documentation to exist. You need a marriage license to be recognized as someone's legal spouse, just as you need a birth certificate or official adoption record or court order (all from the government) to be recognized as any other legal kin (connections made somewhat like that linking the actors via roles game).
    See post #704. You are responding to a strawman of your creation.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  6. #706
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Sorry. It didnt seem relevant to the thread without my pointing it out but I didn't see the previous posts for context.
    No worries. At least in my opinion, it is relevant because a lot of people have this idea that without government issuing marriage licenses we would lose the rights that come with marriage or that private contracts couldn't be good enough. That irks me, because government created the marriage license to discriminate and deny certain couples rights in the first place.

    Unfortunately a lot of bigots have jumped onto "there should just be no marriage licenses at all" bandwagon as a cover for their homophobia. I personally favor same-sex marriage because it is the best realistic solution. Idealistically I prefer that government doesn't get into social affairs with licenses and the like at all, but that isn't going to happen as far as I can see.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  7. #707
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by SENSIBLE PATRIO View Post
    Lets take a vote and see, and no one can see who voted how. You will lose.
    A vote would still only give you an opinion from a single point in time. What happens the day after when people grow old enough to vote or die, so they can no longer cast their vote, and that public opinion changes? In most states, you have to wait at least another year for a new vote to be taken. That is why voting on this type of thing alone is worthless. People change, who can vote, who's alive to vote, and their beliefs/opinions in general.

    We live in a constitutional republic, not a direct democracy. In fact, it goes against the US Constitution for the people to vote on a national level for any laws.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #708
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by SENSIBLE PATRIO View Post
    so by your own admission people can marry anyone or anything they want, as many as they want right, because that is what it sounds like. So incest marriage is ok, and marrying animals is ok, and I can have as many as I want, what about pedophiles, and children can they get married if the child consents.
    Wrong. Marriage is a legal contract, meaning that it still can be limited, when those limits further a legitimate state interest. Animals cannot enter into any legal contract, nor are they ever recognized as legal kin of anyone. Pedophiles can get married, just not to children because children cannot enter into legal contracts. There is a legitimate state interest furthered in preventing children from getting married period, but also in not allowing them to enter into marriages with adults especially. Polygamy requires some adjustment given the laws of marriage but I am for it if these are taken care of. I don't care either way about incest and actually think we need to at least allow first cousins and further out to marry legally in all states.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #709
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    You'll have to back that up. I don't believe it's true. It was so "unprevalent" as to be nonexistent.
    Wrong. It existed in several places, including the Roman Empire, China, Egypt, several native American tribes and others.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #710
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    Re: **BREAKING** U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Rule on Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Technology is only part of the answer.
    Technology and the younger generation seeing the similarities that do exist between the gay rights movement and the civil rights movement of the past, not to mention simply knowing people who are gay. The most influential one though is technology when it comes to the speed of the acceptance. Knowledge is power.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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